Thank you Nick. No wonder you’re conflicted!
Those are not the real issues for me. But I also think (1) is incorrect, for the only reason I believe in hell is because I see it in the world created by people. And as for (2), whether God created people to do or be something is beside the point, since it is very very clear that in Bible, that God does not get what He wants (read Genesis 6) – that is the result of free will. Unlike many human beings drunk on power and control, God appears to be quite able to accept things that do not go the way He would prefer. This is not to say that He will do nothing to improve things. But there definitely appear to be limits (required by the nature of love, I think) on what He will do.
Instead I think the real issues are as follows.
- Will God force people to live and be has He wants them to or not. Well all you have to do is look at the Bible and world to see crystal clear that God does not do any such thing.
- Is it inevitable that people will change for the better? I see no evidence whatsoever of any such thing and plenty of evidence for the complete opposite, that people are quite capable of stubbornly clinging to their evil no matter how miserable it makes them. It is almost as if they are addicted to their own misery.
Well i dont know why you assume that. It ks because i believe that the ones doctrine “fill” the doctrines of the other?
What i mean by this is that i dont believe in saints and some other doctrinal and non doctrinal teachings of the church. I however dont believe in some protestant doctrines as well like their liturgy and their “music” lets say😂
Plus your story kinda sums up my situation now. Although my priest in my church does know of my beliefs and hes not reporting me or anything over and such. Hes fine with it. I truly admire him. But if i engage in a conversation with my other parishioners they will hand me over to the local bishop or whatever and excommunicate me. Not that this is serious but i will be sad if the priest lose his place in our church
In an Orthodox church I presume. It’s wrong, but not surprising. Protestantism is beyond the catholic pale. It takes the worst of the ancient Western church and runs with it. Oil and water my friend. And Greek fire! Don’t rock the boat.
Yes is our local church. But what and why is wrong?
That you feel at risk of excommunication for your conflicted beliefs. You can’t serve two masters Nick. You can’t bring alien ideas in to your fellowship and hope to survive. Just talk to the priest every now and again. Lonely are the brave.
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Ohh yeah. Its not like they will not listen. Im sure some of them will have some similar beliefs too (although very rare) But the majority of them will become hostile. The priest i speak to is very acceptable thought. Thanks .Plus i dont think i serve two masters . The orthodox church although the most old of all the denominations has accepted other ‘themes’ either traditional from ancient greece or other stuff that i think they are not needed and not to be associated with christianity
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No you don’t, and you cannot. You must choose. Choose what fits best in your external life. Never mind your inner life. It’s the same for me and my wife. And confess the conflict to your priest. Orthodoxy isn’t damnationist. That’s a good thing.
For me doctrines is a manmade think. You know to gain power and influence over groups. I have spoken about my beliefs to the priest and hes fine. Not the universalism thing though
You could, he sounds like a good shepherd. So, you attend an Orthodox church but you’ve been influenced by, exposed to, Calvinism?
Yes kind of. As i said i chose the doctrines which are closest to what the early christians did. So the saints are out and post modern communion with rock music and praises songs as well. Plus some protestans chose to dont even have communion which for me is against the teachings of the bible.
I still don’t know what environment you’re having to swim in. Whatever it is, adapt to it and do not expect it to accept destabilizing influences. If you’re swimming in two shoals, choose one. It IS that simple. And choose the one that is most externally comfortable.
Well some protestants will call me non denominational i guess
Are they in your environment?
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Well yes . They are not close by . You guys here are in that environment. So the people around me you can say consist of orthodox on my church and mostly protestants here on the internet where i speak to if thats what you are asking. If you are asking if any christians with my beliefs attend the church i dont know. We dont have a protestant congregation here on my city anyway.
Sure! However, while for you that may mean groveling like Pettigrew to Voldemort or Wormtounge to Sauriman, for me it means my middle finger and the answer given by Albert Camus in “The Myth of Sisyphus.” I would delight in the fires of hell because every flame says that I refuse capitulation to a monster.
In other word, your suggestion is if there is no God of love then we might as well worship the devil because all that really counts is power and what is in it for you. My answer to that is faith, where I continue to worship a God worth believing in – even in the fires of your so called “hell.”
A wonderful mischaracterization of those who don’t mold God into the shape of their politically correct predilections.
I don’t see anything politically correct about what I said – not in my country. Political correctness in my country seems to require bowing down and worshiping the devil if anyone slaps the name of God or Jesus on him.
But for me it takes a bit more than a name to turn a devil or a criminal into God. A protection racket remains a protection racket no matter what name you are using for it.