If you open a different thread on this and quote the passage, I will participate. Just let me know where to go.
I am still married to my first wife of 45 years.
Why a different thread all of a sudden?
The Old Testament is more than just commandments. A great deal more. Much, much more. More than you will ever know. Itâs hardly obsolete or a quaint artifact from a bygone time. But I donât think people should judge it if they donât know it.
Wasnât the going interpretation that divorce was acceptable?
I believe it is Stanleyâs position that we are no longer bound by the decalogue. (I have not given my position). So the question should be directed at him and by proxy, you. Which of the commandments are we free to disobey? And (setting the 4th aside) if the answer is none, then it is merely semantics that we are no longer bound by the decalogue.
Jesusâ teaching on divorce is a tangent from the topic. And His teaching on divorce disagrees with the OT law, which makes your raising the topic incongruous.
David, I asked you that question that you did not answer.
If you do answer, I will answer your question two posts above.
Yes, and Jesus said it was only because of the hardness of their hearts, and went on to say it was not acceptable and if you remarry it is adultery. So what do you do with that? On the surface it looks like Jesus is making the law even more strict and damning, in contrast to the OT. And elsewhere Jesus teaches of anger as equivalent to murder, and thoughts of lust as adultry also, though the context was different to some extent. What do you think his intent and meaning was?
None of them.
I disagree, David.
I am certain that a person can mow his lawn on Saturday afternoon while still loving others.
Why do you think keeping sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is necessary to the practice of loving one another?
I will answer your question.
Andyâs sermons on the topic make the point that the rules of the OT were magnets for loopholes. A good example that he mentioned was the commandment to honor our parents. The loophole involved people dedicating resources to the Lord then telling the parents there wasnât money to help them.
We should unhitch from rules for which people seek loopholes. Acts 15 completed that unhitching.
The command to love one another so that people can see God through us has no loopholes.
Jesus raises the bar on the laws of love, he doesnât lower it.
I already pointed out that I see the Sabbath fulfilled now and forever due to the finished work of Christ. I wrote above:
In any case this is a red herring. Stanley, as I understand it, does not say âwe are no longer bound by the 4th commandment.â He says we are no longer bound by the ten commandments.
I suspect what he would say is that in keeping the NT commandments of Jesus, you will naturally be prohibited from murdering, lying, committing adultery, etc. But if so, that makes saying that we are no longer bound by the decalogue as a word game. If we cannot break those OT commandments, modulo (perhaps) the 4th, then for all intents and purposes they are still binding.
So your turn, which ones can we violate?
Asked and answered.
If you follow the new command Jesus gave us, you will keep all the 10 commandmentsâexcept the Sabbath.
And you donât keep the 10 commandments, because you donât keep period from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday holy. Or do you?
Then it is needless hyperbole to say that you are no longer under the 10 commandments. Stanley should say that you are no longer bound by the fourth and the fourth alone, given that you cannot violate the other nine. And he should not use unclear âunhitchingâ language when in fact what he is saying is neither profound, original, or controversial. It is no at all uncommon (though by no means universal) for Christians to take the position that only 4th commandment, alone, is no longer valid.
And by the way, although it is not my position, it is certainly a defensible position that the Sabbath day changed to the first day of the week. That is, it is not a foregone conclusion that one has obey the Sabbath the same way the Jews did in order not to be in violation of the 4th commandment. Many things changedâfor example what used to be commanded and therefore good (animal sacrifices) would now be an abomination. One can reasonably say the Sabbath has changed and the 4th commandment must still be kept in relation to the new definition. You seem to insist that unless you obey it the way the Jews did then you are violating it. Where is that, pun intended, written in stone?
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Dale, I do not necessarily disagree with any of this, I just tend to disagree with what the Sabbath is. Among other passages, I take Heb 4:9-10 to indicate that the OT Sabbath rest foreshadowed the NT eternal Sabbath restâi.e. we are no longer âworkingâ but resting forever in Christâs finished work.
Of course I could be wrong.
I also view a day of rest (Sunday) as a wonderful tradition. I disagree (even if I accepted that there is a Sabbath day) that the first day of the week is based on anything biblical. I believe it was more of a tradition. The early Christians, before they finally (it took a while) made a total break from Judaism, kept many of the Jewish practices, and then did a purely Christian meal the following day (Sunday) and so it became the Christian Sabbath for historic reasons. Calvin thought that Christians should obey a Sabbath day, and felt Sunday was a perfectly fine tradition, but thought it could have just as well been any day except the 7th, lest it get confused with the Jewish sabbath.
No, it is simply accepting the decisions of the church leaders in Acts 15. Do you reject their decisions?
Jesus gave them the authority to bind and loose. Are you rejecting the words and decisions of Jesus?
By the way, do you do no work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? If not, you donât keep the 10 commandments. It is a simple question, one that people are often too embarrassed to answer.
I would guess that they show the thinking behind these laws, and yes, they do make it more damning. (Who does Jesus think he is, anyway?) They show also our total inability to obey God in our sin. And they hint that sowing a thought might result in reaping a deed.
btw, if the Old Testament turns people off, what do you suppose this type of teaching does???
This isnât about the 10 commandments.