Not at all. I’m suggesting that our approaches are opposite.
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Right. It’s about relationship. It was from the first, and it still is.
For what purpose, then, the “rules”? They served as identifiers of God’s people under the Mosaic covenant and they prescribed the means by which the people would interact with God.
Under the new Covenant, the identifier is not those kinds of rules, but faith/trust/allegiance in Christ. That accomplishes what the rules pointed to but could not accomplish.
I guess you don’t understand God’s right to be a Father and what that implies about loving obedience. Jesus is our model – he did not abandon obedience but fulfilled it.
My ‘identifier’, my identity, is as a child of God, and Jesus is my obedient elder Brother.
Good question. We can know that we are faithful, because we know our “heart.” Jesus told us not to judge others, because we do not know the “hearts” of others. Only God can judge, because only God can know the hearts of people, and God judges people only after their lives are complete and their “hearts” can change and be redeemed.
Jesus was not legalistic because Jesus condemned sins, not sinners. He told the woman caught in adultery that she was forgiven. Go and sin no more.
Legalists look for possible sins in order to condemn the sinners. Jesus never did. Not even His opponents.
Love san not be perverted. God told us to love everyone, the just and the unjust. Love means wanting the best for everyone, even presumably Satan, who we believe cannot change, although he needs to change, if he exists. .
You’re starting to descend into condescension again. Pretty rude. You know nothing about what I “understand” about God’s “right to be a Father what that implies about loving obedience.”
Tell you what, I’ll continue to orient myself to God in love and faithfulness, while you navigate within your system of rules while ignoring specific passages in the New Testament. Don’t forget, of course, to keep that beard trimmed…right?
In case I’m being too subtle, this will be my final response to you. You’re welcome to the last word, if you must.
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Hoo boy. Talk about being credulous.
God is Love. How does one pervert God?
John 1:17 (NIV2011)
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
God’s love cannot be perverted, obviously, but others’ can, also obviously.
The scriptures are inspired, not dictated. Most can live with the fact that they have some errors and contradictions. (The qur’an is believed by Muslims to be dictated.)
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Lots of shocking stuff, huh? The book is even worse.
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@03Cobra I will repeat my post from 20 days ago. Was the OT a “go-to source” for moral behavior in the early church?
The Psalms are a great source of moral instruction.
In Ephesians 4 (NIV) we read:
Therefore, putting away falsehood, speak the truth, each one to his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun set on your anger, 27 and do not leave room for the devil. 28 The thief must no longer steal, but rather labor, doing honest work
- with his [own] hands, so that he may have something to share with one in need. 29 No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 All bitterness, fury, anger, shouting, and reviling must be removed from you, along with all malice. 32 [And] be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another as God has forgiven you in Christ.*
See verse 26? It comes from Psalm 4:4 in the Old Testament
In Colossians Chapter 3 (NIV) we read:
Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and forgiving one another, if one has a grievance against another; as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do. 14 And over all these put on love, that is, the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of Christ control your hearts, the peace into which you were also called in one body. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
See? Teach and admonish each other by singing Psalms.
And now I will quote a book called “Psalms as Torah” by Gordon J. Wenham (PhD, University of Cambridge) to show the use of the OT for moral instruction in post-biblical times.
“The importance of the Psalter in the subapostolic period is witnessed by works such as 1 Clement (ca AD 96). This contains 172 citations from the Old Testament, of which 49 are from Psalms, mainly for moral appeal.”
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I am happy to see you have changed from “God breathed” to inspired.
If God had breathed them, would they have minor errors?
A rhetorical question.
A good illustrations of what it means to be inspired can be found in Mark 12:35-37
35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David? 36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.
37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
The large crowd listened to him with delight.
Jesus is quoting Psalm 110 here, where, Jesus explains, the Psalmist was speaking by the Holy Spirit.
Notes:
Ps 110 is the psalm most often in the NT.
Mozart set this psalm (and others) to music; Listen here
It’s really beautiful.
btw, today is Mozart’s birthday!!!
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beaglelady, your repeated post is no proof that the OT was the go to source for morals in the NT Church, but I don’t think you are willing to see that.
Beaglelady, The fact that Jesus recognized David prophesied in some psalms does not imply that the entire OT is the Word of God. Why would you think it makes a statement on the law or books such as Ruth and Esther?
Well, happy birthday, Mozart (belated, I saw this too late)! Maybe I’ll listen to some to commemorate…
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1 John 4:16-21 (NIV2011)
16 …. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us.
20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
@Dale, calm down and think.
Christians try to see Reality from God’s point of view, not our own, or the world’s point of view. What is love from God’s point of view? Read 1 Cor. 13. This is what love really is and what Jesus meant when He told people to love. Can this love be perverted?
Romans 13:10 (NIV2011)
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Paul’s point and John’s point is that Christians do not love because we are commanded to so do. We love because we have been baptized in the Holy Spirit of Love. Paul called Love a Fruit of the Spirit. It is not a Work of the Law.
We love because Jesus first loved us. If we have a question as to what love really is, we look to Jesus and not to the Torah. Movements which seek to pin Love down to objective acts, such as being “Pro-Life,” generally do not work out so well.
If we take the OT as gospel, then it reveals God the Killer. It is as predicated on the concept of redemptive violence as the oldest texts.
You have not negated one thing that I have said – I am in agreement with what you just wrote. You also have not negated what the NT says about the law that we are to love. Is Psalm 119 in your Bible or have you cut it out?
Note that that does not say that there are no laws or that the moral law has been abrogated. It also more than implies that if we are not keeping the law then we are not are not being loving.