Two questions about how central the question of origins is to your core beliefs

Faith & Science Conversation
542

Dear T_Aquaticus,
but please understand, you are making a grave error right there!
Sorry but I have more pressing responsibilities that mean I haven’t the time to explain why you are making an incorrect comparison here, therefore I recommend that you read the comprehensive article on this very matter at:

That is a very in depth article and covers a great deal, so if you are short of time like me, perhaps the following will clarify the matter for you, (excerpt below is taken from the article at the link and I pray will clarify the matter for you):

Psalm 96:10 is another critical verse for us to understand. It says:

Say among the nations, “The Lord reigns! Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity.”

Similar statements that “the earth shall not be moved” appear in Psalm 93:1 and Psalm 104:5. Do these verses not say that the earth does not move? No, they do not, for one very simple reason: the Hebrew word מוֺט (mot) means “to totter, shake, or slip”11 and is often translated such in other places. The opposite of “shake” can be “unmoving”, as in these verses, but it can also be accurately translated “unshaken”. Using the same word, Psalm 55:22 and Psalm 112:6 say the righteous will never be moved. Same word, similar context, but obviously this does not mean people are fixed in place! Yet, if the righteous can move, so can the earth. Following on that theme, Psalm 121 is titled, “The Righteous shall never be moved.” verse 3 says God will never let your foot be moved, yet a few verses later talks about “coming in” and “going out”, meaning the feet must be moving and the earlier use of “shall not be moved” must be a metaphoric or poetic expression for “firm” or “unshaken”. Also, Psalm 16:8 says, “I shall not be moved,” and most biblioskeptics and geocentrists would not think that the Psalmist was in a strait jacket! Finally, Psalm 125:1 says those who trust in the Lord are like Mt. Zion, which cannot be moved and abides forever. This is perhaps a better place to use “cannot be moved”, for we are talking about a mountain, but even that will be burned up in the future (according to most views on eschatology), so the poetic expression is clear.

END OF EXCERPT
God bless you,
jon

543

Dear Terry,

I really do not see any problem here at all, nonetheless, clearly you do, thus I will attempt to clarify this for you.
The Bible plainly tells us in the Holy Scriptures that God created LIGHT.

3 Modern Hebrew

ויאמר אלהים יהי
אור ויהי־אור׃

Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
1:3



.-

Hebrew Transliterated
1:3 VY’aMUr 'aLHYM YHY 'aVUr VYHY-'aVUr.

Latin Vulgate
1:3 dixitque Deus fiat lux et facta est lux

King James Version
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

or if you prefer:

ג וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי אוֹר; וַיְהִי-אוֹר. 3 And God said: ‘Let there be light.’ And there was light.

4 Modern Hebrew

וירא אלהים
את־האור כי־טוב
ויבדל אלהים בין
האור ובין החשך׃

Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
1:4


- -


.

Hebrew Transliterated
1:4 VYUr’a 'aLHYM 'aTh-H’aVUr KY-TVB VYBDL 'aLHYM BYN H’aVUr VBYN HChShK.

Latin Vulgate
1:4 et vidit Deus lucem quod esset bona et divisit lucem ac tenebras

King James Version
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

ד וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאוֹר, כִּי-טוֹב; וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 Modern Hebrew

ויקרא אלהים לאור
יום ולחשך קרא
לילה ויהי־ערב
ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃

Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
1:5




-
-
.

Hebrew Transliterated
1:5 VYQUr’a 'aLHYM L’aVUr YVM VLChShK QUr’a LYLH VYHY-'yUrB VYHY-BQUr YVM 'aChD.

Latin Vulgate
1:5 appellavitque lucem diem et tenebras noctem factumque est vespere et mane dies unus

King James Version
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

. . . .or if you prefer,

3 And Elohim said, Let there be light: and there was light [Tehillim 33:6,9].

4 And Elohim saw the light, that it was tov (good); and Elohim divided the ohr (light) from the choshech (darkness).

5 And Elohim called the light Yom (Day), and the darkness He called Lailah (Night). And the erev (evening) and the boker (morning) were Yom Echad (Day One, the First Day, Mk 16:2).

Therefore Terry, to have day and night all you require is light from a source, perhaps God Himself is the source of the Light or perhaps He created it on one side of a revolving Earth, (as we are told He separated the light from the darkness), it doesn’t really matter, as we are told that God created it and that is sufficient for us to know. If as is reasonably inferred the Earth was revolving as it has done I expect since the creation, then I do not see any problem whatsoever with the Bible reliably and honestly informing us all that there was a setting and a dawning before there’s sun and moon on the First Day.

God bless,
jon

544

The ANE cosmology, and hence OT, had it that 1) Earth did not move, 2) Earth was flat, 3) Earth was covered by a firmament dome.

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545

Dear Ron,

thank you for your thoughts.

You may believe that ANE cosmology is relevant, however I do not.

ANE cosmology is the collection of creation myths and various traditions of a broad range of primarily pagan heathen cultures in the region of locations such as Egypt, Persia, Armenia, Anatolia and Mesopotamia about four thousand years ago whereas the Jewish people who certainly lived within that region kept themselves separate as they believed the Holy Scriptures, that are inspired by the only Living God.

God bless,
jon

546

Is it just me or does anyone else get the impression that this conversation is going round and round in circles?

4 Likes
547
  • It is, but Burrawanger feels obliged to have the last word and give the last blessing before he signs off on a thread, remaining devoutly impervious to anything said or linked to by almost anyone.
1 Like
548

Except those very Scriptures reference and fit perfectly with ANE cosmology of Abraham’s birthplace; steady Earth, flat Earth, Firmament, and all.

2 Likes
549

I agree, and it is time to retire this thread. If anyone wishes to explore a tangent in a new post, please do so, but will close this one.

I’ve got a song, I ain’t got no melody
I’ma gonna sing it to my friends
I’ve got a song, I ain’t got no melody
I’ma gonna sing it to my friends

Will it go 'round in circles?
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky?
Will it go 'round in circles?
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky?
Billy Preston

3 Likes