There is no longer any excuse

Over a quarter of a million dead. Soon we will have lost as many as died in WWII. If that happens within a year of the first COVID death in this country I wonder if the deniers will still keep their heads in the sand.

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Actually, that advice was superseded several months ago. The page your first link goes to was removed months ago; and your second link is to an article dated April 9 (over 7 months ago) that also references the page that was removed long ago.

I googled the Australian government website and found the current advice as of today:

Where there is low community transmission of COVID-19, wearing a mask in the community when you are well is not generally recommended.

However, where there is significant community transmission (as determined by jurisdictional public health authorities), you may choose, or be required to, wear a mask. If physical distancing is difficult to maintain, for example on public transport, covering your face with a mask can provide some extra protection.

Peace,
Chris Falter

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The Germ Theory is not wrong. It is incomplete. And enough was known at the time to have stated it better.
A microorganism does cause an infectious disease BUT IF AND ONLY IF THE ANIMAL"S IMMUNE SYSTEM DOES NOT ARREST THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT BECOMES AN INFECTION. Naughty boys Joseph Lister, Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur .

There is no excuse for such an omission because about seventy years earlier Edward Jenner had developed the first vaccine in 1796.

And just to be clear, a vaccine does not give immunity or provide immunity. A vaccine gives the body, the immune system to be precise, the advantage of developing antibodies early given a similar or weakened pathogen. If the immune system is not up to speed, then all the antibodies in the world are as good as a pile of the best ammunition laying idle while the military is out on leave at a time of invasion.

There is no scientific evidence that the massive inflammation is caused by the virus. But suppose that it is maybe you can tell me what selective advantage does a virus have to create massive inflammation when it would itself be obliterated quick smart?

Absolutely I agree that the outcome is horrible but what is it caused by? We need to, at some point soon, to recognize that there is a massive and growing inhumane subculture in the world today, possible as many as 1.5 billion people. Allowing people to believe that the massive inflammation is the result of the virus only helps these people operate in a more clandestine fashion, it covers their dirty work.
I am not against people taking some precautions. And I am sure you are a conscientious doctor, but for the most part doctors are not doing enough. Doctors are being controlled by big pharma and they need to rally together and take control of their profession. Most doctors as I have seen a decent, genuine people like yourself.

I am deeply saddened when doctors don’t inform people of how badly they can affect their health by upholding thoughts that put their immune system into over-drive. Yes, a nocebo effect. And it is well known. There’s no conspiracy theory here. What does it take to say “have the medical treatment by all means, BUT don’t uphold negative thoughts as you might hear in the media. Trust that your body can handle the situation and your body does better with the medical treatment’s help”. If doctors did this how many lives would have been saved? I would say a huge number. But of course the doctors, under the current system and state of affairs, would lose their medical tickets if they said something like that.

You are talking to an old lady over 70. I haven’t had the flu for fifty years since I was in my early twenties. And I haven’t had any flu shots either, not because I don’t believe that they can help. But if I am well and healthy I don’t think of having any medical procedures. It it ain’t broke, don’t fix it" is a good rule of thumb.

The lockdowns and closed borders have caused more deaths from starvation particularly than the what is attributed to covid 19. Two million Australians are without work, without their businesses and I am sure in America it is worse. Let’s see how things pan out. Who will benefit from this? This is I would say about global capitalism and the play is very dirty. Lives to them don’t matter a scrap.

Ani,

With particular regards to your comments about ‘the massive inflammation’. I have reviewed the ‘information’ online, and came across a slew of unscientific or pseudo-scientific nonsense, and conspiracy theoretic content that just goes on and on. Most of it is paranoid, shrill and totally ill-informed and clearly has not come as a result of proper real research, or is the product of deliberate misinformation, cherry-picking and distortion of real information.

Frankly, you have provided zero references to real research that demonstrates the veracity of your claims, and no actual evidence to support them. I am not a shill for big pharma, but I am married to Psychologist, and associated with medical people and scientists of various types, and I know that what you are saying is not right.

I think most informed people these days know about the influence of big-pharma, the corruption, the kick-backs, the skewing of the peer review process and filtering of journal articles. Most inquisitive thinking people these days have a healthy skepticism around this. But I think what people are trying to tell you here, is that you are taking this too far. That you are making unsupportable claims, and where there may be a slight possibility of some kernel of truth in some extreme cases such as the nocebo affect which may account for some tiny tiny percentage of cases, you are attempting to give it enormous explanatory power, completely out of kilter with the research on this. You are also implying that everyone is blind or stupid or not prepared to do anything about it, and that therefore this whole COVID-19 situation must be corrupt and the virus is not really responsible, and the condition is misunderstood or mistreated, and this is all driven by big pharma, and we are all blind to all this and you are the lone voice in here he can see the truth. Sorry, but with respect Ani, and given the seriousness of the situation and the loss of life involved, I think you need to pull back a bit, be more responsible with your remarks, and also give other people some credit for having a brain.

After this I am not going to continue responding to you because I do not want to be drawn further into these kinds of debates. I am sure you will come back with all sorts of stuff after this, but I have said all I have to say. Conspiracy theories are causing a lot of problems in the world right now, and I am trying not to give them more oxygen.

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Well Said.
Also, Ani99’s reply to this comment missed your point completely I think.
Ani99, Boscopup is pointing out that we would expect there to be lingering problems after the pathogen has wrecked havoc with our body and for some people to die of the complications. There is nothing new in that. But that does not mean there is some kind of conspiracy to hide information from the public so big pharma can sell more drugs. You have this over-arching conspiracy theory and you are applying it to everything and it is frankly over-the-top. Sorry, but I am with Boscopup here.

In Australia we have a well built public health system run jointly by the Federal and State Governments, augmented by a private health system. The right-wingers have been doing their best to undermine the public health system for years, but despite that, it still functions very effectively. I think this, and the early and well-coordinated actions across all states and territories is the reason why Australia was able to defeat the virus.

I think the uprising of anti-science sentiment, the rise of the hard-right, and the deliberate spreading of fear and misinformation in the US has created huge public resistance to efforts to put in place sensible strategies to stop the spread. A large percentage of Americans are strongly resistant to the idea - firmly reinforced by certain political actors - of what they believe is their government ‘trying to control them’ and take away their freedom. There is some of this going on in Australia, but to a much much lesser degree In the USA, its seems to me that this is almost the predominant attitude.

I put this down to the reducing size of the republican voter base due to urbanization, education and empowerment of women over decades. This has led the party to make an unholy alliance not just with the church, but with hard-liners and crackpots of every persuasion. Now we have a tinderbox created by giving these fringe groups center-stage. The political polarization, paranoia and mistrust this has created has paralyzed the country and possibly done permanent damage to the US but its reputation internationally.

Now, people don’t know what to believe and who to trust, and automatically reject everything that comes out of the opposing camp. Mask wearing is seen my many as state control, infringement of rights and liberties and all part of conditioning us to accept a socialist mindset, priming everyone for the day when they take-over. Yes, I have heard all this stuff and much much more from many people with these viewpoints.

The unholy alliance with Christians is to me the most troubling. We have a very strange world where sincere a devout Christians seem completely blind to the misalignment of the majority of Republican thoughts, beliefs and actions and the teachings of Christ. Not all republicans are all guilty to the same degree of course, but there are so many elements of what the political right stand for that should be deeply troubling to any Christian.

I know that the Catholics have mostly been aligned with the left and the protestants with the right, and pushing this point on this site is likely to get me in trouble. But just let me say that I would just love to see more Christians have the courage to stand up and say that our politics should not be our guide, but rather our conscience, and what is written in our hearts. I am not going to quote scripture here, but it is not a difficult exercise to find support for the idea of working as a community to defeat this virus, to be honest and truthful about the situation we are in, and respect the people who have worked hard and devoted their lives to look after the sick and to listen to them and work with them. Work with people of all political persuasions and if you are republican talk to a democrat and if you are a democrat, talk to a republican. Follow the best scientific advice, and look what other countries like Australia has done. Find the humility to put your differences aside, put down your pride and your anger and learn to trust people again.

This is what we did in Australia, we wore masks, we did the curfews, we lived with the constraints of association and travel and so on for months, we worked together and trusted, and now as a united people, we have crushed this virus.

Some good points but borders on being too political for our forum, so let’s not discuss the politics. I think your point that the church should not be taking sides in partisan politics is good however, as no good has ever come of that. Power inevitably leads to corruption.

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Hi Phil,

No problems. You are right of course, and I will try to keep away from politics in future. I guess I am just a bit worked up from seeing so many Christians abandoning core tenets of their faith in the name of political tribalism.

Cheers
Peter

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