Theistic Agnosticism

This is a big part of why I think there is more going on below the surface than we realize. It is so common to think of consciousness as something we have, rather than something that includes us but may not be limited to us. Of course not believing in an external God, I imagine it instead as an internal other but also place great importance on its inclusion in my life so far as possible.

Interesting proposition, Kent. Sitting on a fence in the literal sense could also become quite uncomfortableā€¦It possibly is in this case tooā€¦

Hello all. Iā€™m a weak agnostic theist, as well as a practicing evangelical Christian. So I certainly hope itā€™s possible for me to exist :wink: Most of my social network understands the latter label but not the former, which makes this discussion very exciting to me!

From my perspective, theist means both accepting the possibility that there is a deity, and living as if one exists. Agnostic means lacking knowledge of God. A weak agnostic believes that they do not have knowledge of God, though knowledge of God may be possible, while a strong agnostic does not believe knowledge of God is possible.

I agree very much with what others here have said about faith as hope and belief as opposed to certainty. However, I donā€™t think humbly-held Christian belief is sufficient to warrant the agnostic label. In my case, Iā€™m wary of arguments for Godā€™s existence from prophesy, cosmology, or teleology, though I accept some circumstantial evidence for Jesusā€™ resurrection. Much more importantly, I donā€™t claim to have personal experiences which are best explained by Godā€™s existenceā€¦like a broken speaker that gives so much static that I canā€™t make out the music, I seem unable to ā€œhear Godā€™s voiceā€ in a repeatable, testable way. As an engineer might say, ā€œthe signal-to-noise ratio is too small.ā€ In my opinion, this is more than just a lack of evidence ā€“ it provides circumstantial evidence against the existence of deity. While this does not by itself disprove the existence of God, it opposes the Jesus-evidence mentioned earlier, and leaves me in an undecided middle ground.

This is where the weak label is important. Unlike strong agnostics, I donā€™t claim that everyone who says they experience Godā€™s presence must be self-deceived. I think it would be very difficult for a strong agnostic to be a Christian, or even a theist. But Christianity is an option for me, so here I am :slight_smile:

2 Likes

See this video (At 0:54) to see what I mean:

Whatā€™s that exactly Reggie, if I may ask? That you have chosen to live as if God exists, despite lack of complete knowledge of the truth? I think ā€œtheistic agnosticismā€ is a pretty good descriptor of this type of thought. Considering JPā€™s massive platform, itā€™ll be interesting to see if such viewpoints gain any associated traction. Such sentiments are hardly unheard of, and I donā€™t believe the idea of living as if Christ is real is anything new, but the level of detachment from the necessity of outright belief he displays does seem pretty unique on the public stage. I read a (panicky) article recently from one of his mentors and friends (former friend perhaps after that article :slight_smile: ) at the U of T which stated he was recently considering purchasing a church. Atheists tend to mock him for such stated ideas, but IMO heā€™s not saying anything so outrageous. Certainly some common religious conceptions seem more bizarre to me, yet often pass with less comment. Not to say I agree with him :slight_smile: Or totally disagree.

Have you seen his talk with Matt Dillahunty, Reggie? You might find it interesting. As can be imagined, they covered related topics for the most part. When JP has to flesh things out a bit more, he comes up with some stranger and more indefensible ideas at times. But no one can fault him for not getting out there and saying what he thinks.

Thanks for posting. I have not heard that terminology, but you explained it well. I think many of us see the world in terms of strength of evidence, especially in the sciences, and it can be difficult to accept things by faith. It is a big leap for some of us, that is sure, and in all of life things that come easy for some are difficult for others. Blessings on your journey.

1 Like

The best take on Jordan Peterson that I have seen ā€¦

Some pretty wild stuff there to be sure. I never considered reading his book, and I guess I was right :slight_smile: But Iā€™ve listened to a fair bit of him on Youtube, and he talks straight enough in most cases, particularly on more concrete political issues. I canā€™t agree with the writer of the article on that point. His religious ideas and focus on mythology and archetypes are often a bit of a different story, but I seldom hear him say anything as incomprehensible as some of that stuff.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 6 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.