That’s not what I’m saying at all, I ‘presuppose’ (rather than believe in) the existence of the Jewish God.
I do believe factually in a spiritual realm, which can be encountered through numinous and mystic experiences. I have heard stories which are very strange indeed. Such as two family members having the same dream, regarding an evil old woman luring them to danger. Stories of a female ‘demon of the night’ are found in Ancient Hebrew and Mesopotamian demonology.
I wonder if the reason you prefer “presuppose” to “believe” is that you reserve “believe” for propositions you believe can be supported to competent and fair-minded observers. If one recognizes that some of their core beliefs are not axiomatic for everyone, then this seems like a useful distinction to make.
1 Like
What I mean is that I treat him ‘as though’ he exists.
1 Like
Would you say the facts more inspire you to believe than they compel you to believe? Regardless I admire your intention to use language carefully to express your position.
1 Like
Yes, that makes sense. I ‘want’ to believe, I don’t ‘have’ to believe, like I have to believe in gravity, photosynthesis or evolution.
Well said. I guess you could say, “I just don’t know” and leave it at that, refraining from taking any position of belief or disbelief in God. Even then it could be argued that you don’t believe and are actually an atheist for that reason. Maybe you could take some kind of probability-based position “it’s 50% possible that God exists and 50% not” for example. As far as how you lived your life, that would be another question. Pascal’s Wager normally doesn’t hold much water, but if you felt that way I guess game theory would suggest that you should go for full belief. If you didn’t truly believe 100% I’m not sure it would make a difference though, though some people do say you can choose to believe things for whatever reason, and maybe you can.
…Yeah … it’s those militantly undecided hardliners I have trouble getting along with. Watch out for the agnostic extremists. 
Seen on a tee-shirt: “have a day” 
1 Like
You mean you’re not sure that you could hold the theist beliefs you do and also admit that the infinite you choose to respect as real in your life requires a leap of faith given your finite perspective?
I certainly think so. I am on record as saying that atheism and agnosticism are different things, so I don’t see anything contradictory with an agnostic being a theist.
You might be interested in Christian Agnosticism which was spearheaded by Leslie Weatherhead:
There is some theological baggage within Christian Agnosticism, but it seems flexible enough to allow many Christians within its tent. Christian Agnosticism accepts the divinity of Jesus and it seems compatible with the Nicene Creed, so I don’t see anything that would be immediately objectionable.
1 Like
I tend to agree with the American Atheists on this one:
“Agnostic isn’t just a “weaker” version of being an atheist. It answers a different question. Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know.”
I think it is worthwhile to disentangle a/theism and a/gnosticism since they seem to be approaching two different subjects.
Militant Agnostic Bumper Sticker: “I don’t know, and neither do you!”
3 Likes
Wow… some people are so desperate to join a club, they will form a club with no rules, no club house, no mascot and no known history.
Bring on the cheerleaders!
Competitive agnosticism: “I don’t know more than you don’t know.”
2 Likes
Personal Agnosticism: “I don’t know who I’m praying to, but it says you have overdue library books!”
Prosperity Agnosticism: “Now that I’m rich, nobody calls me when I miss a tithe!”
2 Likes
It is more than a leap of faith for me. It is reality. Yahweh Elohim in three persons is more real than the very universe we live in. I know that my beloved parents’ spirits are with him now in heaven. One day they shall return to their graves to reenter their perfected bodies. As Paul said: I know whom I have believed, that he is able, to keep that which I committed unto Him against that day. And no one can move my mind in any other direction. I feel him in my very living soul and immaterial spirit. When I feel that, I know it is real.
3 Likes
Do you accept the chance that you could be wrong?
Beautiful words from 2 Timothy 1:12. And if you want to enjoy those words in music, then click on this to see the hymn.
For me , if I am wrong , then both my body and spirit has decieved me , my eyes and my soul have lied to me
If this be the case , then I am a mad man ,and nothing can help my insanity .
Put plainly " I don’t feel crazy "
I wonder if you give yourself, your parents or your community any credit for having made it that reality? Would it have been so if you’d been orphaned and raised by secularists? It seems to me like constructed reality should be able to survive a confession of one’s complicity in its making. But then I don’t really know you, all your beliefs or what they mean to you. So as is often said here, may God continue to bless you. I certainly do not welcome over eager encouragement from others to set aside the beliefs which have led me to where I am today either.