The Troublesome Tree of Life

@heddie,

Is anyone saying that anyone is saying that? Could you put your quills back in their case?

@heddle,

I stand corrected. Regarding this verse, I should have said:

Gen 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They were expelled fromt the Garden because God didn’t want them to have eternal life, now that they knew Good from Evil.

As you say, David, it was okay for them to have eternal life as long as they didn’t know too much.

You shouldn’t try snarky. You don’t do it very well. It takes a certain knack. It’s sort of unseemly when you try.

@heddle

Oh, I don’t know, David. When snarked at, my snarks usually achieve a buoyancy similar to what I receive.

For the healing of the nations. I think it’s wrong to immediately take this to an individual level, when clearly it is corporate. Just as the nations were the object of discipleship in the great commission. I take it to mean the healing of human culture and bringing all human systems into perfect alignment with God’s justice and peace.

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@Christy Of course, I should remember that corporate is the definition of nations. So that interpretation would mean that A&E are being treated as the Archetypes and not individuals concerning the Tree of Life.

Not that it is satisfying to our sense of “discovery” in all things, perhaps the "healing is something we can’t yet imagine.
Perhaps it is the process of healing our “soul” that still must take place even though our brains and bodies are perfected. We still must “grow into them” and the Fruit of the Tree of Life is that very thing. All our culture and systems are dependent upon our mental processes, which need to be aligned to the New Heaven and Earth.

I am still trying to learn to take off my “Western Individual Glasses” when I read :dark_sunglasses: . (I am currently reading “Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes” by Richards and O’Brien.

Ray :sunglasses:

Spurgeon says Jesus was the tree of life.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/3251.htm

We believe our Lord Jesus Christ to be none other than that tree of life, whose leaves are for the healing of the nations. We can scarcely conceive of any other interpretation, as this seems to us to be so full of meaning, and to afford us such unspeakable satisfaction.

It is a very common trope in art.

Ooh, good book. :+1:

Yes, I agree. The symbolism of both the Garden and New Jerusalem, seem to be couched in the same vein as Communion sacraments. The line between what the symbol is versus the power (person) behind the symbol is veiled at this time.

In essence, we are talking about “leaves” for healing, the same as the wings tzitzit of Jesus’ robe.

Ray :sunglasses:

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@Swamidass: Spurgeon says Jesus was the tree of life.

I would say that the Cross and all it connotes is the Tree of Life.

It is often called a tree and it brings all these meanings together, life, death, and eternal life.

Many things going on in that short little episode in the garden, eh? One thing to note is that the theft of knowledge and/or immortality from the gods is a common theme in mythology. Typically, man acquires the knowledge but misses out on immortality. (Obviously, this always must be the case in the stories.) Genesis, as usual, takes a common ANE theme and gives it a twist. I won’t pursue that any farther here, since it would require too much time and space.

While I am not against the idea of identifying the Tree of Life with the cross of Christ, or with the sacraments, these can easily fall victim to the type of allegorizing that characterized biblical interpretation in the Middle Ages. For instance, every time an OT passage mentioned “wood,” it was taken to be a symbol of the cross, and every time the word “water” appeared, it was taken as a symbol of baptism. This, obviously, can run into all sorts of problems. I’ve even heard modern preachers do it. The worst example that I recall was a sermon where the preacher was turning the 12 baskets of leftover bread (after Jesus fed the 5000) into an elaborate series of metaphors that were quite lovely, but had virtually no connection to the text.

In any case, here’s my down-and-dirty, short interpretation of the Tree of Life:

Genesis 1 represents creation as God’s temple. Mankind/adam is presented as the image of God, ruling as God’s representative. This is a kingly image. Genesis 2 represents Eden as the Holy of Holies, where God’s presence is manifested. Adam’s work in the garden is described in the same vocabulary as the priests’ service in the temple. This is a priestly image. (King and Priest. Hmmm. Who supremely fulfilled those roles?) At the end of Genesis 3, Adam and Eve are expelled from the garden and banished from God’s presence.

What does the Tree of Life represent? Simply, eternal life is possible only in the presence of God. The Tree of Life is symbolically represented by the golden lampstand that stands outside the Holy Place in Israel’s tabernacle and later temple, and the tree reappears, as Christy noted, in the New Jerusalem, which shares the same cube-like dimensions as the Holy Place in the temple. God’s special presence will no longer be confined to one small part of the creation, but will fill the earth. We have eternal life because of the presence of the Holy Spirit within our hearts, and we are told that the church IS the temple. The New Jerusalem is not a literal city with a literal tree and literal leaves. The 12 fruits blossoming every month of the year (there’s that 12 again!) are not literal. The river of the water of life, again an image of Eden, is not literal. All of these things are symbols and metaphors.

The fact that we are separated from God is part of the problem of the hiddenness of God, which Eden also explains.

@Jay313,

Perhaps that is an overstatement?

Banished from, Eden? - - absolutely.
Banished from God’s presence? Is it even possible?

There’s God’s presence and there’s God’s presence. I think Chronicles and Ezekiel make that clear with God’s presence coming to, and leaving, the Temple. The whole Temple worship system was about creating a place in which man could commune with God (in his “presence”) without dying.

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Interesting indeed. If we then swap in this symbol, it rather changes the meaning of the Gen 3 quote: if Adam had reached out his hand and crucified himself on the tree of life, it would have redeemed his previous mistake? God would have had to grant him eternal life then, but He didn’t want to because Adam wasn’t good enough to be a perfect sacrifice?

…Am I the only person whose mind went there?

Not banished from his omnipresence, which is impossible, but banished from his special presence, which is equated in the Bible with God’s shekinah/glory. This is the “glory cloud” that overshadowed and “filled” the tabernacle. The whole program of redemption afterwards is summed up nicely in Revelation 21 (emphasis mine, of course):

And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Of course, I went and forgot the most important thing!

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Jesus is God-with-us.

Bold Mine

I was reading my new copy of "The Voice Bible (thanks @Christy) and it has this comment to make on this passage:

* Note: I prefer “Everlasting Life” as an alternate for Eternal Life: Only God is eternal.

I thought that a rather succinct explanation without going so far as to allegorize it.

@Jay313 I agree with your posting above! Agree wholeheartedly! Amen![quote=“Jay313, post:26, topic:36340”]
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Jesus is God-with-us.
[/quote]
The same applies to the usage of Logos to Jesus the Messiah. (I heard this somewhere, I forget where).

Elohim God first gave us the Written Word (the OT)
Then he gave us his Living Word in Jesus.
The He gave us his Everlasting Word in us through His Spirit.

These rich metaphors, being trees or words or water, wine or bread, are the contextual clues we need to relate these concepts to our differing cultural backgrounds. If we don’t use them we are dumb (unable to speak),. If we allegorize them also dumb (to strip them of context)

This is an aside to the ongoing discussion
A study of the dimensions given can also be applied to a ziggurat rather than a cube. Most major ANE temple mounds are pyramidal or ziggurat forms (except Egypt where the pyramid became the tomb of the pharaoh/god). The sacred-space temple at the top of the ziggurat was usually rectangular or cubical. The slopes or levels of the ziggurat were the abode of the priests and the king. Also, as in the famous “hanging gardens of Babylon” the levels were lush gardens–reflecting the Garden of Eden–as part of the “sacred space” leading to the temple of the gods at the top.

Note the dream of “Jacob’s Ladder” (KJV translation) of the Hebrew stairway that the angels are ascending a descending between Heaven & Earth.

Mt. Moriah, or Zion, the “Temple Mount”, could be considered roughly the same with the entrance a major set of stairs to reach the sacred courts enclosed at the top. David built his Palace “the Forest of Lebanon” (massive number of carved cedar logs supporting the structure) next to the Temple, and the population lived on the slopes of Zion with the Temple at its zenith.

I believe New Jerusalem will be a ziggurat form, with a four-side base and twelve walls meaning twelve levels with the temple with Jesus enthroned at the final top 13th level. A 1,300 mile square base ziggurat floating in mid-air halfway between “earth & heaven” and covering the entire “state” of David’s Israel including all suzerains at its largest extent.

If we’re talking about the motif’s given in the context that lead us to understanding, then the New Jerusalem should also be recognized as the “sacred dwelling” of all us redeemed priests & servants of our Lord Jesus Messiah, with his temple at the top where YHWH sheds his light from New Heaven, and New Earth where we get to play!

Of course, the Tree of Life giving its fruits will also be there the River of Life running down beside the steps.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev. 21:2

For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Eph. 5:31-32

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin. 2 Cor. 11:2

Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. Matt. 25:1

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. Jer. 31:31-32

The bride is the church. The New Jerusalem is a symbol for the church, purified and glorified.

Yes, I agree. But the actual and the symbol imagery must be relevant to each other. We make the mistake of paying so much attention to the symbol, we forget that we will be living in actual physical bodies in the New Jerusalem. It may be a symbol, but we will be living in an actual physical place. Therefore, things like bread, wine, leaves. waters, will still carry actual & symbolic meaning both.

The expression of the symbolic can becomes so “real” that we lose sight of the physicality of our future life. Jesus himself showed us the resurrected bodies we’ll have. He may have walked through walls and disappeared and reappeared, but he also ate and touched and and was touched before he went up.

I don no believe that all the symbols are merely symbolic. We will certainly be surprised at we don;t know. Whatever it will be it will be infinitely greater than what we can imagine. However, it will certainly not be less actual, or more symbolic.

Ray :sunglasses:

1 John 1:5-7 (KJV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

@Lynn_Munter

I do not think that Adam and Eve had to be crucified to be forgiven, but they did need to repent. They needed to accept responsibility for what they did and ask for forgiveness from YHWH for betraying their trust. As you know, instead Adam blamed Eve and YHWH and Eve responded by saying, “The Devil made me do it.”

@Jay313
@RLBailey

Indeed the path of salvation begins at one Tree, climaxes at another, the Cross of Jesus, and ends at the Tree of Eternal Life with God, which is the reason why it is Eternal. Also eternal here indicates the quality of life with God, not just a very long life.

The problem is that in the Bible we have two covenants, two ways to restore fellowship with YHWH lost in the Garden. The Old Covenant based on the Law and temple sacrifice and the New based on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. Some Christians seem to think that they are both the same, but they are not.

The OT covenant helps us to understand the NT covenant, but it is different final. The OT is only temporary, but the NT covenant is complete and final. The OT sacrifice and law were temporary fixes, while the NT sacrifice of Jesus Christ, His law of Love, and the gift of the Holy Spirit reconcile us to God the Father and restore our eternal fellowship to God as eternal life with YHWH…

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