It’s astonishing the amount of work and time they put into this!
Thanks to them!
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Denis Lamoureux said that a prof asked him if evolution were true, would he reject Christ. That took him aback, too… I think he implied it was one of the reasons he rethought his position. @DOL
Thanks.
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Yes, the fellow quoted Andy Stanley and others saying that they accepted science when it conflicted with the Bible…and said they were basically traitors.
He then said scientists were biased in favor of millions of years, just as YEC were biased.
That’s not the case…as @jammycakes wrote, they are biased in favor of just weights and measures.
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What awful confirmations of the power of peer pressure and tribalism, consistent with Haidt’s writings of how we would rather do evil and be seen as good by our peers than to do good and lose our peer’s approval.
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Well it either errs or it doesn’t. Kind of like whether you exist or you don’t…
I prefer the way Longman and Keener can say it does not err. Keener says it as a matter of faith, and he is one who has claimed to have experienced the presence of Christ.
What happens once Christians admit the inerrancy of Scripture is something that reasonable people can disagree about?
Jay313,
Here is a handout your daughter might find helpful:
https://sites.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/holamoureuxbeyondbec.pdf
I could even do a Zoom lecture on the handout, if she wishes.
Blessings,
Denis
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Thanks. I think Jay was talking to another man about his daughter, but I shared this with my son, and he found it very helpful.
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Greetings,
It also took me a while to come out of lurkerdom and actually post a comment, though more because of bad experiences I had with discussion forums back in the late 2000s. I can understand the plea for a book to be written and I would agree that there is a lot of valuable material on Biologos that could be made into a book. That being said, I wonder if one of the reasons a book has not been written directly responding to all the creationist claims (sort of like an evolutionary creationist equivalent to the AIG Answers book) is because the culture war has moved on since Biologos was created. Most objections I hear to Christianity don’t seem to have to do with evolution these days. This does not mean that responding to young earth creationism is not important. It is still very influential in conservative evangelical circles. It does mean that writing a book specifically responding to YEC might only be significant for the conservative Christian subculture in the United States and a few other places where YEC has influence such as Australia or the UK. Most of the culture might not even care. I could be mistaken, but that is my observation based on my experience in campus ministry for the past ten years.
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What are the majority of objections to Christianity about that you hear?
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YEC and all other Biblicists will always say that to any scientific response to one of their twiglets. Hack at the trunk of the tree, in faith. The trunk of the tree is perverted, apostate Christianity.
Yes to that! The science is important (and I’ve spent my whole career in science research). My point is merely that the science is the second, not first, part of the journey. One cannot make the second part of a journey until the first has been done. And all I’m suggesting is that the essential first part, at least in @Randy’s encounter, is to establish to the YEC person that we hold scripture in just as high regard as s/he does.
And yes to your addendum!
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Ok. So you were quoting the response someone like Joel Duff gets or will get from the hard core YEC. Right?
I thought you meant that “Yeah, but…” was your own respone to the idea of Joel Duff writing a book refuting YEC. Sorry.
Hmmmm. I’m not sure, then, that I understand what you mean by “biblicist”, though. Specifically how broadly or narrowly you apply the term. Broadly enough, and Joel Duff himself fits (as do I).
Likewise the term “apostate Christianity.”
I’m not trying to play school marm, but understand what you are saying.
Thanks.
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The apology is mine Marm. Yes, I certainly wasn’t yeah butting Joel Duff on my own behalf. But in a sense I was. Responding to any specific creationist twiglet, hydra head is just what they want. Go for the trunk, the throat of apostasy. And yep, we’re all apostate. All. None of us is pursuing righteousness in our helpless privilege. No, not one.
PS responding to open twiggy questions by the innocent young as @DOL does above is God’s work; a labour of love.
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Thanks for your insight. Maybe you could teach us more in another thread. I would be very interested.
YEC has virtually no influence here, not in the arena, the agora. It just subverts in the dumbed down sewerine internet-fundamentalist hadean regions.
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Dr Lamoureux, I think, shows that the Bible is incorrect, with ancient science. That perspective definitely helped me when I struggled to hang on to concordism. It made sense. With divine accommodation, the large parts of Genesis are untrue, though. I tried to communicate that to my church friends who brought the AiG ally in, and they were a bit taken aback. It takes a long time to get there. Patience is surely going to be a factor, I guess. Thanks
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We’ve been ‘patient’ for 1700 years Randy. The dispossessed even more so. They’ve fallen off the edge of patience into hopelessness. Ripe for fascism.
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YEC rages at least in my Midwest part of the US in theologically conservative churches.
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Yes, but I see how they say that we are not equally determined to believe the Bible–because it’s not correct. Where would they go if it’s not? It’s difficult.
…Or isn’t what they want it to be in any case. This morning’s installment over in the MacDonald thread speaks directly to this.
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