The origin of death

Is this about human death or all death? I mean, I’m pretty sure Tim eats meat.

I appreciated this article where Dave Miller goes through how the Bible talks about death. It’s just not true that the Jewish worldview thought exclusively of death as unnatural or the enemy.

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The psalmist in Psalm 104 is praising God… for what? Oh. ; - )

You bring darkness, it becomes night,
    and all the beasts of the forest prowl.
The lions roar for their prey
    and seek their food from God.

Psalm 104:20-21

I don’t have any real problem with the idea that is what our intuition tells us though. When loved ones die there is separation… and wailing, and when a beloved pet dies there is hurt as well. Pain tells us something is wrong.

When Jesus said “leave the dead to bury the dead” (Luke 9: 60) He is clearly not talking about the physical death. The Bible is full of metaphors so perhaps we should not always take the word death to have one meaning?



Original sin Vs Personal Sin and Death

Whenever the discussion of original sin and personal sin and sin before sin comes up - Dave Miller’s article is the go-to.

I am astonished by some of the remarks from the article by Dave Miller on this topic: Does the Bible Teach that Human Death is the result of Sin? But I should not be surprised when I checked his training at the bottom of the article.

He consistently draws false conclusions from Bible verses that use the word “death,” in a variety of ways to attempt to dismiss original sin.

For example:
‘Jesus heals the sick and raises the dead during his ministry. Yet, he never blames human mortality on Adam and Eve. He doesn’t often address the origins of human death and suffering, but when he does, Jesus explicitly denies that disability, illness, natural disaster, and death are punishment for specific sins.’

But Dave omits Jesus’ warning - “If you don’t repent you perish” (That’s the point sin brings physical death). The disciples were thinking of - who’s fault is this sin? But Jesus offers a very strong warning.

Dave ignores - Annanias and Saffhira

In the section: Death as Enemy & Friend in 1 Corinthians
Dave goes off-topic and bunches together scriptures that mention the word death/ mortality and confuses separate topics.

Spiritual & Eternal Death in Romans 5-8
Roman 5-8 he mangles separate concepts.

Dave Miller would have to reinterpret all of these verses to support his position - ie: not physical death but spiritual death

Eze 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Ro 5:13–17
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the…

Ro 6:16
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Ro 6:21–23
What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death,…

Ro 7:5–13
For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way…

Ro 8:18–22
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own…

1 Co 15:1–58
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.…

Php 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves,

2 Ti 1:10
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

Heb 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

Jas 1:15
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Re 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Re 21:4
‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Which would make Jesus a liar unless He is speaking of something other than physical death. Those who repent do not physically live any longer than those who do not repent.

Clearly a case of the exception which proves the rule. That was a sin so trivial that if such were the rule then the human species would be extinct. Thinking this example/story proves anything is downright hilarious.

Your accusations are unsubstantiated. You are the one who looks off-topic, confused, and mangling topics to me.

It is the only sane way of understanding those passages because it is more than obvious that there is very little correlation between physical death and sin. Innocent children die and horrible sinners often live long and prosper.

By your interpretation of the Bible I would be forced to conclude that the Bible is a lie and Christianity is fraud. So I will keep the sane understanding of the Bible and it is those who promote such nonsense which I will take to be the liars and frauds.

I love your assaults. Sincerely Paul

The Bible talks a lot about the spiritual realm and of course the physical realm. There are angels, and demons and the Holy Spirit. If we accept that death in the physical realm has always existed, can we also consider that the curse of death that was the result of Adam and Eves disobedience is the death of the self aware soul of the individual that developed with the advent of a language that makes it possible to describe our self aware existence? Animals die but as far as I know, they don’t fear the loss of their self aware being because they can’t conceive of their non-existence because they don’t have language. The Bible talks about our souls going to heaven to be with Jesus for those who have been chosen by the Father. Is it possible that Jesus died to save our souls from spiritual death until he returns to reunite us with our bodies in the physical realm?

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