The Meaning of the Word "Day" in Genesis 1

MattC, you have once against stressed the importance of context to Bible interpretation—but then you headed into a consideration of Matthew 19:4 and Mark 10:6 (parallel passages, obviously) without any mention of the context. So before responding to your challenge, I will wait for you to post your reflection on the context in which Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matthew 19:4 and Mark 10:6. Was Jesus preaching on the chronology of creation week? Or was Jesus talking about something else entirely?

While you are at it, I would also like to know if you have ever taken the time to consider why so many Biblical scholars consider your argument among the very weakest possible for arguing a six solar day creation. After all, you seem to be unaware as to why your very traditional arguments for a six 24-hour day “creation week” have been failing to impress exegetes for such a long time. However, if that is an erroneous assumption on my part, I would encourage you to correct me and demonstrate that you do already understand why so many scholars remain unconvinced. (Of course, if you have never read commentary arguments against your position, I will go ahead and explain them. But we can save a lot of time if we don’t keep replaying the traditional arguments move-by-move as if re-enacting a well-known chess match.)

Of course, your argument that “Jesus believed that Gen 1 was short” seems to be pulled out of thin air without any basis. And the logical disconnects don’t stop there. So please explain further:

(1) What exactly defines a “short” versus a “long” Genesis 1 time period of which you speak? Where does the Bible—or some alleged rule of grammar perhaps—tell us how to distinguish a short from a long time period? Moreover, why should it matter?

(2) If you are saying that Genesis 1 covered a single work-week of six solar days, then “the beginning of creation” would have referred to Yom #1, would it not? Yet, we all agree that Genesis 1 speaks of HA’ADAM on YOM #6, the end of the creation week! Accordingly, you have just provided for us the very best argument for rejecting your interpretation. After all, according to your arguments thus far, in reflecting upon Genesis 1 Jesus should have said that God made them male and female at the end of the creation, not the beginning! (To your embarrassment, your emphasis on literal interpretation leads to Jesus’ words totally destroying your position.)

What surprises me the most, however, is the fact that you have not investigated the significance of “at the beginning” (also translated “from the beginning” or “in the beginning”.) MattC, have you ever considered the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic wording behind these English language renderings? You see, if you truly consider CONTEXT to be important, you absolutely must do so. I’ll even speed things up by giving you a big hint: MattC, by what title would Jesus and his contemporaries have referred to what we call the Book of Genesis?)

I look forward to hearing why your presumably very “literally based” interpretation of Jesus’ words seems to totally miss the fact that Jesus referred to “the beginning of creation” and not “the ending of creation”, that is, YOM #6 for the mention of male and female in the creation account. I also want to know why you assume that Jesus is referring only to Genesis 1 and not to Genesis 2. (Indeed, considering that there was no numbering of chapters in Jesus’ day, why are you making the distinction at all?)

Was it you or some other commenter who said that using other definitions of YOM within the text would be a case of God being inconsistent—and that God would never be inconsistent in that manner? If it was not you, then my commentary on this topic was directed at some other commenter, not you. Accordingly, it still stands as my rebuttal to what I consider a very poor argument because it imposes an arbitrary linguistic rule on God that ignores how human language works.

Again you pretend that a simple declaration of your opinion makes something so. And I have already explained the many ways in which YOM in Genesis 1 does NOT necessarily mean a solar day. In particular, how could the first three YOM of Genesis 1 be “solar days” when you yourself claim that *there was no sun until its creation in day #4!" How can one have anything that is “solar” without any sun? This is yet another reason why your “literal interpretation” of Genesis 1 is its own best refutation! The more literally you interpret the pericope, the more self-contradictory it becomes!

Moreover, every time someone speaks of a 24-hour day and claims that they are certain every YOM in Genesis 1 is a 24-hour day, they ignore the fact that Genesis says nothing about the length of a solar day. Science and the testimony of God’s own creation tells us that the “solar day” as you call it has been of varied duration over the course of history because it depends upon the rotational speed of the earth itself. Where does Genesis 1 define the rotational speed of the earth (or even state that the earth rotates at all) and tell you that 24-hour durations are a fixed definition of a solar day?

Here again we are reminded that the six 24-hour day interpretation of Genesis 1 is a matter of *tradition, not text!"

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MattC, why does it matter whether some interpretation is “normal” or not? There is no reason to assume that a “normal” (or most popular) interpretation is a valid one. Nicodemus assumed the “normal” interpretation when he heard Jesus say that “You must be born again.” Nicodemus expressed his surprise at a “natural” interpretation of Jesus statement when he went to Jesus one night and asked, “Can a man enter into his mother’s womb a second time and be born again?” Yet, Jesus told Nicodemus that his “natural” understanding of the term was wrong.

This “normal interpretation” and “natural reading of the text” sounds like just another version of “the child test” that I’ve heard people cite for as long as I can remember.

I won’t attempt to speak for my colleague but I want to ask you a related question. I once heard a biology professor say in her lecture to Biology 101 students, “For those of us of the female gender, when the stork delivered us to our parents we already had in our bodies a lifetime supply of eggs.” Tell me, MattC, because that biology professor mentioned a stork delivering babies to parents, do you think that that means that she affirmed a belief in storks as where babies come from? Or was she simply using a standard linguistic convention in the English language for referring to the day of a person’s birth?

Likewise, someone in first century Palestine could have referred to “the six days of creation” as a common convention to speak of all of God’s providence in bringing about the world they observed around them. (Whether or not the average person in Jesus’ day thought that the creation of the world required six solar days is irrelevant to what God actually did.) I have used the very same choice of words to refer to the plan of God in creating the universe—even though I’m well aware of the billions of years of earth’s history which God in his wisdom ordained and gave testimony to us through the evidence he placed all around us. Figurative language does not undermine the literal realities.

Genesis describes Noah’s flood as an inundation of the ERETZ. The fact that the ancients had limited understanding of the full nature and scope of the ERETZ doesn’t change the fact that we see zero evidence of a planet-wide flood. (Such a recent inundation of the entire planet so very recently as Young Earth Creationists claim should have left obvious evidence virtually everywhere we look. Instead there is zero evidence of a global flood. As a former YEC was once invested heavily in the “creation science” movement, I can assure you that I looked most aggressively for that evidence!) Jesus made no effort to describe the geographic extent of the flood. Indeed, when Jesus mentioned Noah, he worked from within the understanding of his audience. My question for you, MattC, is whether you think that Jesus should be denied the same facility of language that the biology professor is allowed to use. I think most of us grant the Lord Jesus the same leeway in his use of human language that we would grant a biology professor.

Jesus also said that the mustard seed was the smallest of all seeds. As a “literal” statement of botanical description, Jesus’ declaration would be considered a falsehood. Yet within the conventions of human language, Jesus used a linguistic expression which was well understood at the time. Jesus wasn’t giving a botany lecture at a university. He was making a theological point: a little bit of faith can have huge and powerful implications. Is that not obvious?

These are just a few examples of how those who demand literal interpretation create for themselves contradictions and problems within the Biblical text which otherwise would never be problematic—even under a “natural reading” of the text! Indeed, by insisting upon interpretations that would force Genesis 1 to contradict itself, they dishonor the text.

Really? That is news to me! After a lifetime studying the Greek texts of the New Testament, I’ve yet to find any evidence of Jesus “believing” that Genesis 1 demanded some sort of “short” duration. Again you confuse tradition over what the Biblical text actually states.

Indeed, that is the power which cherished traditions can hold over us. Our cognitive dissonance can be so overwhelming that we aren’t even conscious of it. We are reminded of that danger whenever what we think is “obvious” in the text, while to so many of our brethren within the Biblical studies academy, it is not so obvious at all. (If something were truly “obvious”, those with equal reverence for the value of the Biblical text would all agree on the interpretation of a given passage.)

Is it not obvious? The creation hymn we call Genesis 1—which was probably a very old oral tradition at the time it was put into writing as part of the Torah—is based upon a SEVEN YOM creation poem outline. So it is entirely appropriate that when God enacted a command of sabbath-keeping as part of the Sinai Covenant, he cited the special meaning of YOM SEVEN using a familiar tradition which everyone among the children of Israel would have understood. You appear to be saying that a YOM #7 sabbath day could not have been mnemonically-based upon the seven YOM of the Genesis 1 oral tradition unless seven solar days were involved in both. What is your basis for that? What “rule” of logic requires it? Why can SEVEN only be significant if linked to a “solar day” and not just the Hebrew YOM of Genesis 1? MattC, once again you are selectively applying your sense of “literalism” wherever it suits your purpose, even while ignoring such literalism wherever it doesn’t.

The Bible also speaks of the four corners of the earth. Do you assume that this is a “literal” description of the earth? And when you hear a sailor speak of his lifetime of experiences on “the seven seas”, do you assume that there are exactly seven separate seas of the world instead of one huge ocean which human language tends to classify and divide using very general terms of location?

You seem to be holding tenaciously to “solar days” in Genesis 1 as if everything depends upon them. MattC, can you please explain to us how there can be three solar days, each with an allegedly literal evening and literal morning, when you believe that no sun existed until “solar day #4”? Do you not see that as the enormous self-contradiction it is? Please explain to me how three solar days can exist without a sun?

By the way, within a poetic hymn, such obvious contradictions aren’t contradictory at all. But the moment you claim that Genesis 1 must be a prose historical narrative of seven solar days, the “chronological account” immediately falls apart from its own internal contradictions.

MattC, does it bother you at all that a 6,000 years ago, six 24-hour solar day creation based upon a “literal interpretation” of Genesis 1 totally contradicts the testimony to billions of earth history which God has given us in the creation itself? If God is truly the author of both the Bible and the Creation, shouldn’t we expect BOTH of God’s great works of authorship to be in agreement about our history? I certainly expect God’s two great books to tell a consistent story. So whenever it appears to me that the two are in contradiction, I generally assume that my interpretation of the evidence from one or the other or both is flawed. I have great confidence in the truths of the scriptures but have limits to my confidence in my ability to interpret them properly. And a major reason for that is that the longer I live and the more I learn about the original languages of the Bible (and many other fields of scholarship), the more I find my Biblical hermeneutics maturing and thereby changing from what it once was.

MattC, your comments bring back a lot of my memories of long ago. When I was drawn into the “creation science” movement with the publication of THE GENESIS FLOOD (1962, Henry Morris & John Whitcomb Jr.), after John Whitcomb had preached a preview at my church the year before, it blended perfectly into the Young Earth Creationism traditions of my peer group and family background. At the time there was limited breadth to my knowledge of science and Classical Hebrew—and more importantly, my grasp of historical and comparative linguistics—so I internalized six-solar-day creationism and “flood geology” uncritically and without hesitation. Why? I assumed that (1) those whose theology and personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ was similar to my own deserved my total trust, and that (2) God wouldn’t allow sincere, prayerful disciples of Jesus Christ to be wrong about such an important topic. (3) I also assumed that such apparently godly people had done their due diligence in investigating both the exegetical and scientific evidence, and surely I should trust born-again, Bible-believing Christians for my understanding of the earth’s history. After all, they told me that all of the evil atheists of the liberal, worldly universities taught the Theory of Evolution and its billions of years for the sole purpose of destroying students’ faith in God! So, it was obvious to me which side of the culture world deserved my allegiance.

Sadly, all of those presumptions on my part were wrong. They had no basis in the scriptures, though the cherished traditions of my church had convinced me that these were absolute truths! Not until I started digging deeper into the scriptural and scientific evidence for myself did I begin to realize that my “spiritual heroes” had not carefully done their research. I discovered that they had cherry-picked their so-called evidence and had so often deceptively (and dishonestly?) quote-mined their sources.

Worse yet, when someone during the audience Q&A would expose blatant errors in my colleagues’ books and conference presentations, these “creation science” experts would promise to correct them and more carefully explain them in the next edition of their books—yet that rarely happened. Even more worse yet, the following weekend at the very next “Creation Weekend” Bible conference, the same speaker would repeat the same misinformation unchanged, as if they had somehow forgotten their promise to be more truthful. Yet, when I would confront them privately, I was given the worldly excuses of compromise and self-justification: “Do you think the atheist evolutionists care about getting their facts perfectly right? Why aren’t you complaining about them?” I got angry replies when I answered those questions with “Atheists don’t reflect my position, nor do they represent Jesus Christ and the Gospel as we do. Shouldn’t the highest standards of truth-telling start with us? Doesn’t the Lord call us to truth?”

Needless to say, my questioning of the authority of the self-appointed leaders of the creation science movement gradually brought me into more and more conflict as I began to see these non-profit and yet commercial enterprises gradually evolving into what would became the lucrative origins industry we observe today.

Why do I mention these asides? Many of the arguments you are presenting, MattC, have been made popular by the enterpreneurs of the origins ministry industry. Their poorly constructed arguments about the scriptural and scientific evidence today have changed very little from those used a half century ago. So many Christians repeat them out of sheer familiarity and tradition with little thought to the fact that they make no more sense today than they did in 1962. (Insisting upon three solar days of evenings and mornings before the sun was created on Day #4 destroys a rigidly literal interpretation of Genesis 1 without any help from Hebrew exegesis or modern science! I’m absolutely amazed that anyone still uses the six-24-hour solar-days “plain meaning” argument.) This does not escape the notice of non-Christians as they make natural assumptions about the credibility of the Bible, and so general receptivity to the Gospel message itself suffers accordingly. That’s why these topics are not just a minor matter of disagreement among believers. The evidence-denialism (both of the scripture evidence and the scientific evidence) of Young Earth Creationism is doing incredibly damage to the Great Commission. Claims of a six solar day creation 6,000 years ago are not just absurd on the basis of all available scriptural and scientific evidence. They destructively distract from the salvation teachings of Jesus Christ.

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I have a question for those who believe that Genesis 1 must be interpreted in a very literal way: Do you find anything within the text which rules out the Days of Proclamation view? Even if someone insists that YOM must refer to a “solar day”, is there any reason why each day of creation week could not be a YOM of God’s creative commands, while their fulfilment obviously entailed the passage of time?

For example, is there any reason to think that all of the world’s forests, coral reefs, sedimentary rocks, and all ecosystems for that matter, must have come about “instantaneously” as popular tradition has it. Or could it be that on a given day of creation, God commanded all that would develop in a particular domain of the the created world? Humans are subject to the arrow of time but to God, “and it was so” doesn’t require God to wait for many years to pass before acknowledging that his command brought about what Genesis 1 describes.

Of course, I find it impossible to accept the far-fetched “appearance of age” view. The stars we see in the sky which would have required billions of years to reach our eyes aren’t just pinpoints of light. Each dot in the night sky consists of data packets detailing the history of that particular star. Would God create a night sky full of fictional stories about many millions/billions of years of star history which never happened? Is the entire universe just one big deception meant to convince us of billions of years of history which never happened?

I won’t say that the Omphalos Hypothesis is blasphemous. But does it come close? Thoughts?

My past errors continue to humble me. And to make sure that I never forget the lessons learned, I often find myself reading the famous quotation from Augustine. I’m sure every reader on this website has read the following countless times but I’m going to re-post it anyway. I consider its message timeless, but all the more amazing in that Augustine lived from 354 to 430 AD:

“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]” – Augustine of Hippo

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MattC, I’m afraid that, while this is an often-repeated and much-loved claim, it simply isn’t true.

Young Earth Creationists do NOT “use the same scientific evidence and interpret it differently.” They simply dismiss any evidence which they cannot reconcile with their predetermined conclusion of a young Earth and a global Flood.

Thus, when the much-vaunted RATE Project encountered a tiny problem with their rapid-decay model–namely, that their own calculations indicated that the excess heat would melt the planet’s crust and kill every living thing–they concluded that, since they couldn’t possibly be wrong, God must have taken the heat away through some unknown, possibly miraculous mechanism.

That’s not “interpreting the evidence differently.” That’s hand-waving the evidence. And that’s what Young Earth Creationists do constantly. Millions of pollen-clay varve couplets? Dismissed with vague comments about turbidity during the Flood. Polystrate fossils with their rootlet systems intact and growing through many layers of “Flood sediment?” Typically outright ignored.

I have never heard any Young Earth Creationist offer any explanation of the correspondence between oxygen isotope ratios in ocean core samples and the orbital eccentricity predicted by the Milankovich Cycle.

Heck: I’ve never heard any Young Earth Creationist explain why (winged) pterosaurs are consistently buried much deeper than sloths, or why dolphins and icthyosaurs are always buried at vastly different depths. The usual explanations certainly don’t work for THAT one–dolphins and icthyosaurs occupied the same habitat, had the same inability to escape the Flood, and had nearly-identical hydrological profiles.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 tells us to test all things and hold fast to that which is good. While this was written specifically in reference to prophetic pronouncements, I think it’s quite safe to say that it applies whenever someone claims to be speaking for God’s “plain meaning.”

Young Earth Creationist claims routinely fail to stand up to the test.

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@Benjamin_Pierce

Well said!!! I nominate this text (if not the whole post) for one of the TOP POSTS!

Is there an official name for such a collection yet?

George

In fact, YECs not only cherry pick the data, but also use a special YEC scientific method. They call it Operational Science, which was invented by a few clerics about 15 years ago.

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There are a number of exegetical problems with the article that links back to here. Unfortunately, the discussion this should be in has been closed so that people who read that article will not read the comments they need to read here. Nonetheless, two easy points need to be made that the author of that article has completely missed for some reason.

First, Gen 1 is not poetry. The presence of a structure is not necessarily a poetic feature. Structure is a well known part of historical narrative (cf. Alter’s The Art of Biblical Narrative). However, a common and almost constant feature of historical narrative in Hebrew is the use of the waw consecutive. Poetry is typically marked by other verbal forms. So the argument that Gen 1 is poetry falls in light of the grammar and syntax. Robert McCabe dealt with this in part one of this critique of the framework theory (http://archive.dbts.edu/journals/2005/McCabe.pdf). Both articles are well worth reading for those who want another perspective on the framework theory.

Second, regarding the use of YOM in Gen 1, the way YOM is used in Gen 1 is only and always used of 24 hour days. To say that YOM sometimes means other things in the OT is true, but it is misleading. The way that it is used in Gen 1 is never used anywhere in the OT for anything other than a 24 hour day. Again, this is simply an exegetical question about which there is no question. Appealing to Gen 2:4 as evidence against that shows how unfamiliar one is with the argument. Gen 2:4 is not the same usage of YOM as Gen 1; it’s a different syntax, one that is commonly used of longer periods of time in the OT. Gehard Hasel dealt with this conclusively over two decades ago (Geoscience Research Institute | I think we need more research on that...).

Barr’s quote is invoked above and in response, OldTimer invokes Bruce Waltke as one who would disagree. And yet Bruce Waltke said that there was no doubt that that days of Genesis 1 were our 24 hour days. As for others, I haven’t done a full investigation of what every Hebrew scholar believes, but I know that a great many of them, including Waltke who is no Hebrew slouch, said that YOM in Gen 1 meant 24 hour days.

Whatever the science is, the text questions are these and they are pretty simple.

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On the “yom with a number can only mean a 24 hour day” rule.

Hugh Ross pointed out in a podcast back in 2005 that the earliest known reference to the “yom with a number” and “yom with an evening/morning construct” rules dates back to material from the Institute for Creation Research back in the 1970s or so. He said he had tried but failed to find a reference to this rule that predates the 1960 publication of Whitcomb and Morris’s book “The Genesis Flood” and hence modern late 20th/early 21st century young earth creationism. Nor has he been able to find a reference that is independent of the young-earth movement.

If this is the case, then it would appear that these rules are nothing more than a fabrication by the young-earth organisations. Certainly, I would expect that if there were any merit to them, we would have had to contend with atheists and liberal theologians rubbing our noses in them right throughout the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

(The podcast was “Creation Update #259”; link to podcast here; index page on RTB website here; discussion starts at 1:10:15.)

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I discussed the YOM in Genesis 1 issue with Bruce Waltke at an AAR/SBL conference many years ago. He agreed that (1) there is absolutely no reason to doubt what scientists have determined about the fact that solar days used to be much shorter [I corrected my original wording!] than 24 hours, and that (2) a solar day interpretation of the first three days (as well as the use of evening/morning) is obviously problematic because of the creation of the sun on YOM #4. I’ve had no one-on-one conversations with Waltke since my retirement but I’d be surprised if his impression of Genesis 1 is much different from mine in this regard: The “solar day” of Genesis 1 is that of a hymnic structure: using the analogy of a seven-day week to tell about God’s role in creation and to contrast with other neighboring religions of the day,which assigned various gods and goddesses to the various domains of the world we observe. The use of chiasm can’t be ignored.

If I recall Waltke’s YOM arguments correctly, he was reacting against the Old Earth Creationists who often overplay the alternative definitions for YOM rather than to notice that YOM isn’t being used for a strictly prose purpose. That is, the “solar day” aspect of YOM is just a starting point for describing a theological rather astronomical set of concepts. I’ve already given an analogy in Carl Sagan’s “Cosmic Calendar”. Sagan used the word “calendar” in its 365-days in a year sense, representing the first definition under the word “calendar” in an English lexicon. But that does NOT mean that Sagan thought the universe was one year old. He was using the well understood, conventional calendar to view the vast history of billions of years in time-relative and proportionate ways. Likewise, Genesis 1 makes use of a solar day NOT to teach us a chronological and scientific account of creation but to contrast Israel’s God with all others.

Dr. Barr never was the one-and-only end-all of Hebrew lexicography. (Why choose Barr as the final authority?) His sound-bite makes a great debate nugget for preaching to the Young Earth Creationist choir, but to pretend that it somehow settles the issue is bizarre.

As to the waw-consecutive argument, few Hebrew structures have seen such overly strained exegetical exaggerations. Obviously, it is the kind of argument that is sure to leave the non-scholar wondering who they should believe. So there is zero chance of it being settled in a few sentences here, so I won’t even try.

And yes, a half century ago I was entirely enthusiastic about the “wav-consecutive proves Genesis 1 must be historical narrative” argument. (That was before computer-based stylometry studies gave it a revival and the rise of Internet websites from origins ministries gave it popularity.) I used it in my talks at Bible conferences all the time. My first major rebuke came from my first year Hebrew professor, a Jewish rabbi and Journal of the Society of Biblical Literature editor who put me in my place in about two minutes. (I was a young science professor headed for a career change.) He bombarded me with about a dozen reasons why Genesis 1 didn’t fit my very traditional interpretation. He also asked me, “In standard prose that is an historical account, how likely are you to dutifully recite And the evening and the morning was the Nth YOM? Do you commonly write in a structure of verses and choruses?”

If there is “no question” about it, why do so many of us consider it ridiculous? Once again, I challenge everyone: Show me a respected Hebrew grammar reference book which considers this strained restricted-to-the-Tanakh “rule” to be the final determinant of meaning. (Good luck.) The same Hebrew professor I mentioned previously took me to a half dozen parallel usages in the Talmud and gave me an excellent introduction (aka drubbing) as to why rabbinical scholars often sneer at the “tunnel vision” (his term) of “evangelical diletantes” (his term) when it comes to our misunderstandings of Classical Hebrew. Sadly, we have a long tradition of pretending that the Tanakh is the only ancient Hebrew text, and our syntactical studies begin and end with it as if no other Hebrew corpus exists.

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Well stated. I first heard of this alleged “rule” from John Whitcomb Jr. but I was never able to find it in any Hebrew grammar book at that time. John once offered to send me a citation for it but never did. (That conversation probably occurred sometime in the late 1960’s.)

This is a matter you can research, but first, you need to make sure you get the rule right. It’s not “yom with a number” and “yom with an evening/morning construct.”

Have you read the articles? Read those, and let’s interact on the ideas there. Hasel’s article and McCabe’s article are linked and you can see for yourself what they say. You don’t need an argument prior to 1960. Can you imagine how much would be ruled out if that were the standard? All we need to do is examine the data as scientists say we should do.

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Thanks, OldTimer. If I might respond …

[quote=“OldTimer, post:43, topic:4219”]
If I recall Waltke’s YOM arguments correctly …
[/quote]Here are Waltke’s comments: “To be sure, the six days in the Genesis creation account are our twenty-four hour days” (Bruce K. Waltke, “The Literary Genre of Genesis Chapter One,” Crux 27 [December 1991]: 8). He goes on to assert that “they are metaphorical representations beyond human comprehension and imitation.”

Waltke clearly understands (or at least understood) the intent and the grammar. He defends his position with the comment about them being metaphorical and beyond comprehension, although it’s difficult to understand why they would be beyond comprehension. Most of us are pretty familiar with the idea of “day.” It’s not really hard to understand unless you are predetermined to get another conclusion. I don’t say that to sound prejudicial. I just think that is a large part of what’s going on in some areas.

[quote=“OldTimer, post:43, topic:4219”]
As to the waw-consecutive argument, few Hebrew structures have seen such overly strained exegetical exaggerations.
[/quote]I think that’s an overreach for anyone who reads Hebrew. It is a pretty well recognized feature of Hebrew grammar. Waltke and O’Connor in their standard An Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax say, “Situations described with wayyqtl are mostly temporally or logically succeeding [quotation of S. R. Driver saying the same thing] … Wayyqtl signifies logical succession where a logical entailment from a preceding situation(s) (##2-4) is expressed” (33.2.1.a).

Similarly, a more recent work (Van der Merwe, Christo, Jackie Naudé, Jan Kroeze, Christo Van der Merwe, Jackie Naudé, and Jan Kroeze. A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar. Electronic ed. Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 1999) says, “Waw consecutive + imperfect bears reference to the same temporal spheres and aspects as a perfect form but it is also characterized by ‘progression’.” (21.2.1)

There are exceptions but the majority (yea, overwhelming majority) of waw-consecutives in Hebrew are narrative chronological indicators, particularly in narrative sections.

[quote=“OldTimer, post:43, topic:4219”]
“In standard prose that is an historical account, how likely are you to dutifully recite And the evening and the morning was the Nth YOM? Do you commonly write in a structure of verses and choruses?”
[/quote]This one seems pretty easy to me: As many times as you need to emphasize that everything that happened happened on that particular occurrence of the earth’s rotation. That’s not a mind-boggling question to me. It’s not even provocative. If the author is trying to emphasize that a series of things happens within in a particular time frame, that would be a very reasonable expectation. I think comparing that to how moderns write or speak is misguided in that our way of doing history is completely different. We don’t think at all like the ancients in many cases. BTW, isn’t that one of the arguments of the old-earthers? That their way of thinking was so different than ours? You are comparing two entirely different ways of thinking, writing, living, etc.

[quote=“OldTimer, post:43, topic:4219”]
If there is “no question” about it, why do so many of us consider it ridiculous?
[/quote]I would suggest perhaps two reasons: (1) the meaning of יוֹם is not being debated mainly by Hebrew readers, much less scholars who have the knowledge and tools to do the work and (2) people have a predetermined conclusion to reach as in “It can’t be a 24 hour day because that’s not how it happened; therefore, it has to mean something else.”

I would be curious as to how many people participating here (yourself included) are even aware of Hasel or McCabe’s arguments (which other have made as well), much less have read them and interacted with them. I would imagine not many for the simple reason that people are often not interested in a view they do not already hold and particularly if it requires the investment of thought. They have already decided and need to do no further reading or study. I find that unfortunate. It’s one reason I read here at Biologos. I intend to keep informed and thinking. Have you read those articles? What is your interaction with them?

I would be interested in these parallel usages in the Talmud. Do you have a list of them handy? I would like to check them out. I imagine that one consideration is the time issue. The Talmud postdates the OT by at least 500-1000 years by a critical date, and most likely by 1500-2000 years by a conservative date. We would expect over time to see a change in language. That’s why the study of classical Greek is different than the study of Koine Greek even though they are separated by only a few hundred years.

So I don’t think you have moved us ahead here much.

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Many of the people here grew up convinced of young earth creationism, and it was the only position they believed was credible or allowable for faithful Christians. They changed their minds when presented with mountains of conflicting evidence and when it was exposed how much information had obviously been twisted, omitted, misrepresented, and plain old fabricated by young earth science writers. Going through this experience makes a person feel burned in a way. It is hard to go back to a source that you trusted and you now believe lied to you and read what they write with an open mind. They’ve lost their credibility.

Some people are here honestly exploring claims of “both sides,” but the majority aren’t in flux, they’ve; already done their exploring and decided whose framework they trust more. It’s not a matter of not wanting to do further study, it’s a matter of directing your study at things that are still open questions in your mind. If you’ve already concluded that the entire YEC framework is a mess and the people who advocate it misrepresent reality, why would you want to invest time in reopening debate on a minor point? Changing your mind on one minor point is not going to redeem the framework or the reputation of its advocates.

If you’re happy with YEC and it answers all your questions to your satisfaction, then by all means carry on with it. But don’t assume that other people’s rejection of YEC is based on ignorance of what YEC claims. A lot of time it’s the opposite. It’s the former YEC people who studied YEC claims more in depth and realized how incoherent and untenable they were that you find in these esoteric discussions. People who have never known anything but evolution usually don’t see the point in engaging these minutiae at all.

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Then perhaps you would care to explain how I’ve got it wrong?

I scanned McCabe’s article. Looks like mostly common or garden YEC arguments to me. His citations certainly include a lot of references to AIG/CMI/ICR literature.

No, but I do need evidence that the young earth organisations aren’t just inventing rules of Hebrew grammar and Biblical exegesis in order to make the authority of the Bible dependent on the age of the earth.

Arguments that come later than the publication of The Genesis Flood, and whose earliest appearances were in YEC literature, don’t give much confidence in that respect.

Oh brother …

What is a day?

  1. Only twice a year is the day and the night of equal length. All the other days they are unequal.

  2. So how about 24 hours? Every century, what we call 24 hours actually becomes longer. 2000 years ago… a day was SHORTER than 24 hours. This is because the tidal resistance created by the Moon and the Sun are slowing down Earth’s rotation. So which year are we using to mark a day?

  3. How about the old stand by? - - a day is how long between Sunrises… no matter how long it takes. But God doesn’t create the Sun until Day 4 …

So… just WHAT is a day? It doesn’t seem like the Creationists are WAYYY too adamant about what a day might be…

George

First, I hope nobody quotes snippets from my writings of 35 years ago which no longer represent my position. (I can’t speak for Bruce Waltke, but I’ve learned plenty in 35 years and can only hope that some of my poorly worded prose of long ago is not brought back to haunt me.)

Secondly, I know from conversing with Waltke that he freely acknowledges that the earth’s rotation is slowing down and that in the past the earth’s solar day was closer to 23 hours. Perhaps you missed it but part of my point is that it is overreaching to claim that YOM in Genesis 1 must be a 24 hour day and not some other length. Demanding that it be a 24-hour day is simply not in the text.

Thirdly, you have not explained to us how the Hebrew words for “evening” and “morning” have their “literal meaning” (a phrase that always makes me wince because few who use the word “literal” agree upon its exact meaning) in a world where there is no sun in the sky.

Fourthly, you somehow miss the fact that Waltke goes on to show that he does NOT mean “the six days in the Genesis creation account are our twenty-four hour days” in the same way you do because—according to your quotation from his work—he goes on to say, “they are metaphorical representations beyond human comprehension and imitation.” Once Waltke explains that he understands the six YOM metaphorically, then I’m entirely willing to say that he and I are in agreement on the meaning of YOM!

I already explained this analogical use of YOM with the example of Sagan’s “Cosmic Calendar”. Sagan was indeed using the words “hour”, “minute”, “second”, “day”, “month”, and “year” in the same sense as our conventional, lexicon uses of those words. Yet, Sagan did not think that Homo sapiens literally first appeared mere milliseconds ago nor did he think that planet earth was devoid of all life for only a matter of months! Is it not that much more difficult to understand Waltke when he says that the common Hebrew word for day, YOM, was used metaphorically just as you appear to concede? (I’m not saying that you agree with Waltke’s position. I’m simply saying that I assume that you are conceding that Waltke understood the six YOM in Genesis 1 as metaphorical. In so doing, you are also conceding that Waltke is a citation better suited to back up my position rather than yours!)

Yes! Thank you for making that point. I constantly remind my YEC scholar opponents of that fact whenever they come up with their novel rules of grammar and lexicography!

Young Earth Creationist commentators regularly present word and grammar studies which treat ancient Hebrew as a single language that never changes—some even telling me that that consistency throughout the centuries spanning the Hebrew Masoretic Text is another trait of divine inspiration—and they’ve always gotten very angry with me when I show them that we no longer make those “Holy Spirit Koine Greek” and “Holy Spirit Hebrew” claims of a century ago! And that is why, when dealing with YECist commentators and origins industry entrepreneurs, I find myself having to temporarily play along with their bias on this matter, just to debunk it. That is why I ask them if they have concorded their words, phrases, and grammatical constructions into the extra-Biblical Semitic texts in order to test whether their alleged “rules” are actually born out as consistently and as universally as they claim. (The answer is usually no.)

Whenever Young Earth Creationist commentators treat the Hebrew of Genesis and Job as if the exact same vocabulary and grammar applies as in the late prophets and beyond, I remind them of the enormous time span–and compare it to the English language where few of us can still read Beowulf in the original tongue. So I entirely agree with you. But I refuse to allow the YECists the freedom to be inconsistent. (They can’t have it both ways depending upon the demands of the debate point of the moment.)

As to Dr. McCabe, for example, yes, you will always find it possible to cite another Young Earth Creationist at a Young Earth Creationist institution who must agree with your traditional position on Genesis because he would immediately lose his job if he didn’t. In peer-reviewed science, we evaluate the quality and significance of published scholarship based on how often a title is referenced by other scholars of the diverse academy. And I don’t mean just the other scholars who happen to hold the exact same Genesis positions at other confessional institutions demanding the same views of their faculty as a mandatory contractual provision necessary for employment! Are McCabe’s syntactical points being incorporated into standard Hebrew reference grammars? Is he being quoted outside of the origins ministry industry? (The best evangelical scholarship does indeed find its way into JBL and other high-caliber periodicals, gets cited in the leading commentaries, and has major impact outside a small cadre of confessional institutions. McCabe’s work has not been widely cited, though several of us have critiqued it when he has been promoted in various “creation science” materials. Yes, there will always be institutional journals routinely publishing (without significant peer review) the papers of their own faculty and that is the case with the article you mentioned. {Dr. McCabe is the Registrar at DBTS, the publisher of the journal you cited.} Dr. John Whitcomb Jr. first introduced me to McCabe when he was one of his students at Grace Theological Seminary, back in the days when I was a hard-core Young Earth Creationist “creation science” speaker and used to swing through northern Indiana now and then for my engagements. So I’m familiar with McCabe and his scholarship and have indeed noticed that he’s never taken it to an AAR/SBL conference to see how it holds up under peer-review before the leading Biblical scholars of diverse backgrounds.)

I won’t dissect your points any further because (1) I suspect that you are copy-and-pasting without having carefully engaged the technical linguistic matters involved, and (2) you are ignoring the enormous arguments against your position. (3) Moreover, I don’t think you are understanding what Bruce Waltke is saying–even though I assume you do understand that Waltke has been very negative about YEC hermeneutics in Genesis for a very very long time. Thus, I think Christy Hemphill has summarized this topic and discussion quite well.

Those of us who once staunchly defended the Young Earth Creationist position (including the six-24-hour-days, 6,000 years old creation, and global flood) eventually abandoned it as we came to realize that the scriptural evidence simply didn’t support it. Moreover, after tediously checking out YEC citations and deceptive quote-mines, we began to see a pattern of cognitive dissonance, cherry-picking, and, sadly, dishonest scholarship. As Christy explained, we got burned far too many times to casually expend more time in debunking the latest tradition-based propaganda presented as if it were peer-reviewed scholarship.

In my case, I had left the “creation science” camp long ago based on the Biblical and linguistic evidence, but didn’t begin to examine the scientific evidence related to origins until years later. So whenever I hear the bogus claim from far too many quarters that “Former YECs who affirm evolutionary biology choose to follow man’s fallible science instead of the infallible Word of God”, I add it to the list of lies I’ve compiled from creation science “apologetics”, lies I too was once guilty of telling in my sermons.

I would have found my way out of the creation science and Young Earth Creationist camp far sooner
if I hadn’t largely restricted myself to YECist literature. I rarely engaged the scholarship of those who had reached other conclusions and so my trek to the truth was a very slow process. I now look back and feel like I slowly felt my way out of the woods using my own hands feeling around in the dark, while I kept myself tightly blindfolded much of the time. (So I made very slow progress in re-examining my presuppositions and tradition-based beliefs.) That is, I rarely read the excellent emerging literature which so directly and skillfully refuted my claims. Thankfully, today that process has been made far easier because of the Internet. I would encourage you to take advantage of the access you have here to so many of us who come from theological backgrounds much like yours. You’ve probably been told that someone like me is a “theological liberal” and has abandoned the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s not the case. And if I didn’t think that my views on science were solidly Biblical, I wouldn’t affirm them. Today I prefer to pursue the truths in God’s revelations to his people, both in the scriptures and in the creation itself, rather than affirm the particular set of cherished traditions of my own church background. (For many of us, it is a matter of Biblical TEXT over TRADITION.)

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As this “Meaning of the Word ‘DAY’ in Genesis 1” thread winds down (eventually), I hope we can engage the question which naturally follows it on some new thread: If Genesis 1 does indeed demand that we affirm a creation of the world just 6,000 years ago, how do we deal with a universe absolutely saturated with evidence of billions of years? Why would our Creator plant so much deceptive evidence all around us which so blatantly contradicts a six-day creation and young earth? Is that kind of deity consistent with the YHWH ELOHIM of the Bible? Would God really do that to us?

PREVIEW: When I was a young professor, I knew several preachers who claimed that this contradiction was a test which God intentionally placed before us all, so that “God could test the faith of his people while confounding and frustrating the faithless atheist scientists.” (I know from discussions with my colleagues that they too have memories of pulpit sermons making that very claim.)

I too think that Dr. Waltke understand the intent and the grammar. So we are in agreement on that.

So, you say that Waltke “clearly understands” the intent and grammar of the passage. Yet, you deny his claim about the intent of the passage when he says that Genesis 1 is a theological and not scientific-historical account where God tells us that he created the world we observe today. So it sounds like you are picking and choosing from Waltke’s scholarship those nuggets which you believe will serve your purpose while ignoring all others. After all, here’s what you next said about Waltke:

I’d say that the reason you find Waltke’s statement hard to understand is because you aren’t grasping what he’s saying. (Have you read the entire cited work or have you only read the small excerpts appearing in Young Earth Creationist articles where Waltke is prooftexted?) There is a lot beyond comprehension in Genesis 1 because we don’t know how God went about creating everything and the text makes no attempt to explain it.

Indeed, as it has been repeatedly asked but nobody has yet explained, How can there be three “solar days” of evenings and mornings without any sun? I’ve been asking that question of literalist-creationists for years now and rarely do they fail to completely dodge it. That is just one of the various problems forced into the text of Genesis 1 when insisting upon “six consecutive 24-hour solar days.” Again, how can one comprehend literal evenings and literal mornings as portions of solar days when the sun is yet future?

However, such nouns make far more sense when seen as more loosely applied descriptive terms (convenient poetic terms) for “periods of time” rather than rigidly literal applications of days, evenings, and mornings. In fact, I would assert that Genesis 1 could have been just as easily written with YEARS instead of DAYS as the units of time—and still be consistent with Torah references to the 6+1=7 pattern—because the specific durations of the time periods are irrelevant to the theological concepts being conveyed.

To restate that, Genesis 1 could have described God’s creative role in terms of seven years just as easily as seven days. I won’t expand upon that thought here with a long tangent but I’ll mention it in preface to the question posed earlier about how Genesis 1 should be viewed in regard to the fourth commandment:

“8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”

Young Earth Creationists insist that only a 24-hour day would allow the six workdays followed by the one sabbath day to make sense. But that entirely misses the analogy to the Genesis 1 pattern of 6+1=7. How do we know that? Because the very same six plus one equals seven pattern appears in the Torah Law concerning Israel’s observance of six working YEARS followed by one SABBATICAL YEAR. And we see it yet again in the seven weeks-of-years aka seven sevens-of-years followed by the Year of Jubilee, the sabbatical of sabbaticals!

Thus, the six YOM followed by one sabbatical YOM of the Genesis 1 creation week is not just a Torah-basis for the fourth commandment (where the unit of time is a solar day) but it is also the basis for the Torah-commanded observance of the week-of-years and the seven-sevens-of-years.

This is a great example of the YEC tunnel-vision mentioned previously. Young Earth Creationists like to cherry-pick Exodus 20:8-11 as if its primary focus and interpretive lesson is the exact length of a YOM. So they totally ignore that the same 6+1=7 pattern of Genesis 1 is just as important to the Torah establishment of weeks of years (as well as the weeks of weeks of years) as it is to the 6+1=7 days in a conventional week of days.

Yes, all three of the Children of Israel’s calendar SEVENS (i.e., the sabbaticals/sabbaths) are based on the original SEVEN of Genesis 1, reminding us that the primary focus is on the SEVEN, not the exact duration of the word YOM itself.

It is so important that I’ll say it again but as a question: Who can doubt that the foundational basis and explanation for all three types of sabbaticals/sabbaths in the Hebrew calendar were rooted in the original SEVEN pattern in Genesis 1?

Of course, we see this phenomenon often in both OT and NT hermeneutics when important numbers (e.g., the number 12) play special symbolic roles, even though they become “detached” from their original “units”. (I won’t develop that thought here with yet another tangent but I think most readers will immediately recognize it.)

I agree entirely! It explains why many young earth creationists have grabbed at Waltke sound-bites, and praise his Hebrew skills, when they happen to fit their traditional interpretations—yet when that same exegesis of Dr Waltke leads him to abandon the young earth creationist hermeneutics of his youth, they are certain that that could only be explained by his being “predetermined to get another conclusion.” How convenient.

Do you think it impossible that young earth creationist hermeneutics could not be “predetermined to get another conclusion” because that is your cherished tradition? Indeed, if “predetermination” were always our hermeneutical guide, many of us ex-YECs would still be promoting young earth creationism!

And yes, with the insinuation that all such hermeneutical choices are due to predetermined bias, I can’t help but chuckle a bit! If YECism and “creation science” have a worldwide reputation for anything, it’s cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

In fact, considering that young earth creationist professors at very traditional fundamentalist Christian Bible colleges and seminaries would immediately lose their jobs if they dared to reach anything but their predetermined conclusions—and the same cannot at all be said for most old earth creationist professor or evolutionary-creationist professor at their various evangelical institutions—the “predetermined bias” argument tends to provoke a smile with many of us.

It reminds me of Ben Stein’s Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed movie, which promoted that popular story of unfair bias against anti-evolution IDers and YECs—even though none of the cases profiled in the movie actually checked out as actual discrimination and violations of academic freedom. Meanwhile, I can name many colleagues and friends at YEC schools who have walked on eggshells for years (as well as those who have been fired outright in the middle of a semester) for daring to follow the scriptural and scientific evidence wherever it led. (Alas, Dr. Waltke’s story becomes pertinent yet again if we were to explore this topic relevant to “predetermined conclusions”!)

Frankly, if predetermined and predictable conclusions (and problems of bias) apply to these topics, I dare say that I saw much more of that when I was part of the young earth creationist world than what I observed while on the faculty of a taxpayer-supported, secular universe in the USA! Personally, I never found myself walking on eggshells and very very carefully choosing my exact words while teaching at a major state university like I did at a very conservative, young earth creationist seminary. No comparison. (And at the secular schools one had to be convicted of a felony in order to be ousted from the campus in the middle of a semester without extensive due process—even if one lacked tenure! Our contracts protected the professor as well as the institution. Need I explain which type of campus was the most likely to discriminate and censor? As you can imagine, Ben Stein’s movie complaining about the lack of academic freedom cracked me up —and not just the ramped up audio for the Nazi goose-steppers.)

This topic has taken me on a walk down memory lane.