The main reason why I cannot accept Christ as my saviour


(Mitchell W McKain) #61

1 John 1:8 “If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves.” There is a memetic inheritance which brings with our humanity some self destructive habits, so that by the time we learn to speak we are already being dragged down by the bad examples we follow. It is not about deserving. Do three-year-olds deserve to be hit by a car and die. This happens, and no doubt they were doing something they were told not to. But to say they deserve to die is insane. We learn from our mistakes. That learning is the essence of life itself. Philosophies which do not acknowledge this and have an anti-life demand for perfection is no different than other bad habits which are self-destructive in the way they obstruct learning.

To be sure we often whip ourselves with the memories of our mistakes. To the degree this helps us to change, this is a good thing. We most certainly should remember both our near experiences with death and the harm we have done to others enough that we do not do the same things again. But this can also go too far if we go beyond this to think of both ourselves and others as worthless because of our mistakes. The real measure of value in life is in not some unrealistic perfection but in whether we are learning and doing better. There is plenty in the Bible for a Christianity which reaffirms this truth and if your religion is teaching something different then you should really start to question where this religion is really coming from.


(Phil) #62

The sermon of George McDonald referenced previously speaks to me along those lines, I need to read it through again, but what he says about justice and mercy is profound.


(Madd Scientist) #63

There are historical, archealogical and experiencial evidence to show that the birth, life, the death and resurrection of Jesus are real. The choice is yours. I will give an example.

In my town the economy is on explosion as evidenced by massive building construction projects all around. In one of the construction sites, they have left ahuge man hole on the street. I am walking and I see the man hole in front of me. It is real. I can do 2 things. 1)I can see the hole and believe that it is real. In this situation, I will walk away and save myself.
2). I see that it is real. But, I refuse to believe. What will be the consequence? I need not explain.
What is the conclusion of this analogy? I can believe whatever I want to. My belief or disbelief of the reality is not going to change the reality of the man hole. It is real and it will be there. But, my decision to believe or not to believe only has consequence for myself. MY BELIEF OR DISBELIEF WILL NOT CHANGE THE REALITY OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE MAN HOLE.
You are too intelligent for anyone in this forum.Therefore, I have no other choice than to leave you with your own way of thinking whether it is right or wrong.


(Mitchell W McKain) #64

I historical and archaeological evidence can only show a limited amount. The experiential evidence is personally very convincing but inadequate for an expectation that other people believe. Thus we are left with making a personal choice and have faith accordingly. So I take the Bible seriously and believe that Jesus died and was resurrected to a spiritual body as the Bible describes.

Ah… but there are different kinds of beliefs. Consider the following two examples:

  1. The earth is round like a ball not flat like a table.
  2. My team will win the state championship.

Only number 1 is like your manhole example. Believing the earth is flat and quoting the Bible in support of it does indeed fail to change the reality. But many beliefs are more like number 2, where the truth of it is not independent of believing it. Your belief either way contributes to whether it is true or false. Such to a great degree are many of the issues of faith.

I seriously doubt that. Besides…

  1. I am not a big believer in differentiation of people according to intelligence anyway. I think real genius is derived from passion. Thus we are smart in the areas we love and thus give our time and energy to them, and dumb in the areas where care not and thus give very little of ourselves to them.
  2. I am getting to an age where it is more about experience than intelligence. I speak about what I know from experience and intelligence has very little to do with it. And one of the things my admittedly short experience with people on this forum is that there are intelligent people here whom I can and have learned from already.

I take it you have found my explanations confusing then. But, I think leaving people to their own way of thinking is a good idea. For the most part, the best you can do in dialogues like this, is contribute a few ideas which other people may use as it suits their way of thinking.