The Garden Story Never Happened. The Garden Story Always Happens

Section 5: Creation and Flood Parallels with Ancient Near Eastern Mythology

All throughout the ANE (ancient near east) we find creation mythology with direct parallels to that found in the Hebrew Scriptures. For many scholars, some of this literature predates the Hebrew scriptures by thousands of years. We will see some very significant overlaps of the first Genesis creation story with Egyptian mythology below. We will also look at the Gilgamesh epic and compare it to the garden story and see how Atrahasis is similar to both the garden and flood stories. The Canaanites had their own mythology as well, as reflected in the Ugaritic Ba’lu Cycle. That story features the Canaanite god Ba’al Hadad being repeatedly challenged by other characters and succeeding over and against them. In the first part he overcomes Yam, the Canaanite god of the sea, who sought to become the most powerful of all. Eventually he gains dominion and even after he dies his successors are not as kingly as he is. Then we have t he Enuma Elish , which as we have seen, is an attempt at establishing Marduk as the chief Babylonian god. It features his battle and defeat of Tiamat (the sea) and subsequent creation of humans and our world out of the slain, divine carcass. It goes back further in story than any other creation myths in the region to a time before even the hierarchal ranks of the gods are established. As we saw, Genesis cuts right through all of this in short order.

Atrahasis: is an epic written in Akkadian, the language of Babylon. An old version survives on clay tablets usually assigned to the 1600s B.C. but this ancient story likely predates this time period. The first tablet describes the Sumerian gods of sky (Anu), earth (Enlil) and water (Enki). Enlil has lesser divine beings (dingirs) till the earth and build its water systems. Eventually they rebel, after digging up the beds for the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, refusing to do strenuous labor. Rather than punish them, Enki suggests humans are created to do such work. Mami the mother goddess is assigned the task and through a combination of clay, the spit of other gods and the flesh and blood of a voluntarily slain god, seven pairs of male and female humans are born. The second tablet features Enlil sending famine and drought at regular intervals to deal with overpopulation and the noisy humans. Eventually he decides to destroy these annoying humans with a flood. Tablet three depicts Enki warning Atrahasis, the hero of the story, to dismantle his house and build a multi-tiered boat of specific dimensions sealed with pitch. He is told to include two of each animals on board. He boards with his family and animals and the storm and flood, which lasted for seven days, was so severe even the gods were afraid. After the flood ends Atrahasis offers sacrifices to the gods. Enlil was of course upset that some humans survived but a bargain was struck. In order to control the population, women will now be barren, demons will cause miscarriages and steal babies and some women will remain lifelong virgins, consecrated to the gods. Atrahasis lives in paradise apart from these newly created humans.

The parallels to Genesis along with significant differences are obvious especially when it comes to the flood account and Noah’s ark. Here one God (Enki) preserves life against the wishes of another (Enlil). In Genesis, we have one principle God who creates everything and has sovereign control over it. Atrahasis features a fully heavenly host and hierarchy of divine beings pertinent to creation. In Genesis 1, God creates humans in his own image, he wants us to be fruitful and multiply, and shares his creation with us and gives us dominion over the earth. In Atrahasis the creation of humans is result of a rebellious divine soap opera and accomplished through a recipe involving spit, flesh and blood of a slain god and clay. We are meant to be slaves or perform strenuous labor for the gods, at least one of which who engages in regular population control—which has the exact opposite effect of filling the earth. It is my contention that early Genesis should be understood as a Jewish-theological retelling of older myths using ancient literary topos.

The Epic of Gilgamesh: older than Atrahasis but some think it’s flood account is thought to have been added later and possibly borrowed from its version. At any rate, tablet eleven features Utnapishtim (as opposed to Atrahasis or Noah) as the principal character. Gilgamesh is seeking eternal life and Utnapishtim explains how he was granted it. He was warned by Enki to build a boat of specific dimensions and seal it with pitch and bitumen (very similar to the Genesis version). His family, all the animals of the field and his craftsmen were taken on board. After 6 days and nights the storm ended and all humans turned into clay. His boat, like the Biblical version, lodges on a mountain and he releases a dove, swallow and raven. When the raven fails to return he opens the ark and releases its inhabitants. He offers sacrifices to the gods who are pleased by the aroma (as does Noah who’s roasting animal flesh was a pleasing to the Lord). Ishtar vows never to forget this time. The parallels to Genesis are extensive and don’t stop there. The story of Gilgamesh begins in tablet one with the people crying out about his oppression of them. As a solution, Enkidu was made from the dust/clay in the ground as a rival. He lives with the animals in the wild but a women is put in his path. She seduces him and after a lot of sex he loses his animal strength and gains the ability to reason (becomes like one of us?). Like Adam motivated by Eve’s voice to eat, Enkidu listens to Shamhat and eats bread which he did not know. After his encounter with Shamhat the animals are no longer comfortable with him. Upon leaving his prior residence, he first covers his nakedness. What is more is that much later, Gilgamesh has his plant which he hopes to bring him eternal life, stolen by a serpent as he bathed. There are, of course, tremendous differences between the two accounts but the common themes they share are scarcely coincidental.[i]

The Sumerian version of the Gilgamesh Epic has a similar flood story but features Ziusudra as opposed to Noah (Genesis), Atrahasis (Atrahasis) or Utnapishtim (Gilgamesh). The Egyptians had a story in, The Book of the Heavenly Cow , which features Ra sending the goddess Hathor to slaughter humans which had rebelled against him. He repented of his decision and basically intoxicated Hathor with beer dyed red to look like blood. She woke up and was now a loving goddess and friend of humanity. Flood or destruction of humanity stories were very common in ancient near east and several versions of many of these stories are evident as they evolved over time. For many scholars the seams and details creating friction within the story itself indicate the Genesis flood account was multiple stories about Noah put together. Of course, it is difficult to date most ancient works, or the first edition of them nor can we understand their full compositional histories but the flood story in the Hebrew Scriptures appear to be much later than the other one.[ii]

In the Instruction of Merikare , there are many parallels to the first creation account in Genesis 1:-2:3. John Walton cites a snippet of it from Miriam Lichtheim’s translation:

Well tended is mankind—god’s cattle,
He made sky and earth for their sake,
He subdues the water monster,
He made breath for their noses to live.
They are his images, who came from his body, He shines in the sky for their sake;
He made for them plants and cattle, Fowl and fish to feed them. . . .
He makes daylight for their sake, He sails by to see them.
He has built his shrine around them, When they weep he hears.

Humans have the breath of life, are made in his image and seem to be the goal or the climax of creation as other things were made for them. Walton writes, “This is the best-known and oldest example of human beings in general being described as in the image of god.”[iii] Arnold writes, “t he deity subdued chaos (or “the water monster”), created heaven and earth for the sake of humanity, breathed life into their nostrils, created them according to his likeness (“images” from his body), and finally, that he created for them plants and animals, fish and fowl for food.”

One the next several pages there will be charts from various scholars outlining the overlap of Genesis 1-3 and 6-9 with other ancient mythology. I took my own stab at creating the first chart for Genesis 1:1-2:3 as I wanted to list the source texts for each detail. Over time, I hope to build this to become a more extensive and comprehensive showcase of the breadth of ancient literary parallels to early Genesis, many of which appear to predate the Hebrew creation stories themselves. It is in this cultural context that we should seek to understand our own creation mythologies.

My Own Listing Based on My Readings

Chart below transcribed from John Sodem and John Miller, “In the Beginning. . . We Misunderstood: Interpreting Genesis 1 in its original Context.

The Garden Story: Genesis 2-3. John Walton offered the following “summary observations about humanity” as a chart describing contact points between the garden story and Enkidu in the Gilgamesh Epic. [viii]

Later in the story Gilgamesh secures an herb that would either grant him eternal life or restore his youth – his last chance at immortality and it is stolen by a serpent. Gilgamesh at last comes to his senses and reaches a reconciliation with his mortality. After the flood Uta-napishti is taken and sent to the mouth of the rivers which is an Eden like setting.[ix]

We have already witnessed how Genesis 1:1-2:3 turns ancient cosmogonies on their heads and we appear to have the same feature happening in Genesis 2:4-25. It is of note that whereas Enkidu is a companion to animals, none are suitable for Adam. Adam and Even were removed from the Garden for disobeying God whereas Enkidu appears to be settled in a garden like place after the flood. Sex is what “civilizes” Enkidu but in the Bible sex or marriages brings people back to their primordial whole. Unlike Shamhat, Eve was not just a mere plot device used to relocate Adam from inside Eden to outside of it. She was meant to be a co-laborer with him, sharing a sacred space and joined as one flesh. Walton writes, Again, Genesis turns the discussion upside down. Genesis is thus using common literary motifs to convey the truths about humanity that are the familiar topics of the conversation in the ancient world. They are operating in the same room of discourse, but Genesis has rearranged all the furniture. “ Ancient readers and listeners to this story would naturally get all of these cultural references we would not if we were unaware of the epic of Gilgamesh. Genesis is far more interested in the theological dumping of ancient myths on their head and establishing the primacy of the Jewish God than it is giving us a factual and precise scientific overview of how said Deity created the first two humans and the world.

Here is a list of Garden Story and Flood Account Parallels to the Atrahasis account in Genesis 6-9. The extant form of this list is from Peter Enns and it modified that found in Frank Batto’s Slaying the Dragon (pp 51-52). This version is more condensed and it is not worth me reinventing the wheel. What is of special note is Batto’s take on the Garden story overall where he rejects the typical interpretation: “The thesis I am expounding here stands, of course, in direct opposition to the opinion commonly encountered in commentaries on this passage, namely, that the garden was a place of sublime happiness for “our first parents” prior to their “fall.”“[x]

Most aspects of the primeval history in Genesis find many parallels with literature from the ANE.

[i] Now many conservative exegetes might be quick to posit a solution where the Biblical view gets creation right and all of these other stories are developments and perversions of the correct version. If you assume God has authored Genesis and it is infallible in all literal details then this solution is a natural corollary to take (or be force fit into!). The problem with this is from everything we have seen, the creation accounts have no real interest in modern science/history. They are theological statements about God and per the evidence that we do have, the Biblical stories appear later than some of these other stories. It is best simply to treat the Genesis creation accounts in their ancient context, rather than impose upon them ours.

[ii] Bernard Frank Batto, Slaying the Dragon, p. 40, “In Slaying the Dragon, wrote, “In each case, the authors of the three Babylonian epic myths, Gilgamesh, Atrahasis, and Enuma elish, were shown to have been highly creative thinkers who transformed their societies’ religio-politico-literary traditions into universal statements about reality, such that they became paradigmatic for all suc­ceeding generations of that society. The story and intention may have been different in each case, yet all three employed a sim­ilar method. Each of these authors consciously and deliberately adapted prior mythic stories and motifs, and created new ones as well, as they crafted their own new literary compositions.”

[iii] Walton, Genesis as Ancient Cosmogony

[iv] Bill Arnold, Genessis (New Cambridge), p. 39: “God’s method of creation – divine fiat , or spoken word – is known elsewhere in the ancient world. The Babylonian lord of creation, Marduk, proves his worth as divine king by means of a star, which is created at his command and disappears at his command. Similarly in the Memphite theology of Egypt, the god Ptah creates by means of his heart and tongue, which is to say, by the word of his mouth. Like a king issuing a decree, the creative orders are given and fulfilled. In this case, however, there is no one else there to receive the command and carry out the order. This is truly a creative command unlike others, because the very speech of God brings something into existence that did not have independent, previous existence. It is also interesting that this is the only time in Gen 1 that creation occurs by fiat alone. Elsewhere in the chapter God speaks and then takes action to “make” or otherwise bring about the feature of creation.

[v] This and the Coffin text information were attained from John Walton’s, Genesis 1 as Ancient Cosmology” pp. 168-169. He also notes on p 169, ”In contrast to Egyptian literature, it is typically claimed that Mesopotamian cosmologies do not evidence creation by the spoken word. This assessment, however, is colored by what is understood as “creation.” If creation was viewed in terms of functional ontology, it would not entail deity calling material objects into existence by the spoken word but would refer to establishing and assigning functions by fiat. And if we grant this definition, Mesopotamian literature is replete with creation by the spoken word, in that the decreeing of the destinies is always accomplished in this way.”

[vi] Genesis is seen as a cessation of creation. These temple are places to worship theses deities and Genesis invites us at the end to join in God’s rest just as the people join the gods in their temples. The function is the same.

[vii] Naming and existence were often equated in the ANE. The names give an object its function Arnold pg 40

[viii] John Walton in the Lost World of Adam and Eve: Genesis 2-3 and the Human origins Debate, p. 111

[ix] Walton, Lost World, pg 114 “Not only is Adam “taken” as Uta-napishti is (Gen 2:15); he is also situated at the source of the rivers (Gen 2:10). In Gilgamesh, Uta- napishti is “settled”22 there, whereas the word used for the placement of Adam is even more significant, since it is the causative form of the verb “to rest” ( nwḥ ). In God’s presence, Adam finds rest—an important allusion to what characterizes sacred space. Both Adam and Uta- napishti are placed in sacred space, where they have access to life.”

[x] Frank Batto, Slaying the Dragon, pg 52

Good work, Vinnie. Don’t you hate it when someone (like me) looks past the topic-at-hand and begins answering and questioning facts not in evidence? So first, to my ignorance: Are your submissions here to assume that creation did occur, leaving aside the obvious metaphorical, allegorical, and/or hyperbolic assumptions of many? If so, then I would only submit that the sequences from Genesis, no matter how much we choose to alter them, cannot be used even as a base-platform to explain what we know today. They are so far from our factual database that they MUST be considered irrelevant (at least to me). For example:

The 3 great domains of life are bacteria, archaea and eukaryotes (all plants and animals). Since eukaryotes came last (~2.1 Bya), finding commonalities of the first two are key to our origins. The DNA database now has >6,000,000 genes of bacteria and archaea. Genes that do the same thing in two different species are considered to come from a common ancestor. By that process, the 6M genes have been reduced to 355 meeting the criteria for a LUCA. These point to an environment of deep-sea vents for our beginnings. Scientists today are almost unanimous in that belief.

The last universal common ancestor (LUCA) is NOT the first life on earth, but rather the latest life that is ancestral to all current existing life. In fact, LUCA used alphabets of 20 amino acids and 4 nucleotides with which to construct itself. So what preceded that? So LUCA comes long after a lot has already happened. That would be where we re-think Genesis and the two stories.

Before pondering that, let’s think about the origin of life. On Earth today, all life comes from preexisting life. No scientist has yet been able to create a living cell from organic molecules. Defining ‘life’ is more difficult than one could imagine, but is usually reduced to the necessity to carry out 3 functions: metabolism, self-repair, and replication. To do this, any hypothesis must account for three processes: 1) The ability to reproduce and replicate hereditary information, 2) the enclosure in membranes to form cells and 3) the use of energy to accomplish growth and reproduction. The paradoxes are numerous, considering that for life to have gotten started, there must have been a genetic molecule capable of passing along blueprints for making proteins. But cells can’t copy DNA/RNA without the help of proteins themselves. Furthermore, none of these molecules can do their jobs without fatty lipids necessary for the cell wall membranes to hold contents inside. And even still, protein-based enzymes encoded by genetic molecules are needed to synthesize lipids.

Origin of Life (OoL) research was originally dominated by chemistry, searching for organic molecules required for life that could be generated by the elements present on early Earth. There are many organizations actively exploring the possibilities. Stephen Freeland (here from an essay) leads the Gordon Research Conference for origins. (He is admittedly a Christian, but he is desperately searching for answers that avoid the necessity for a God). So what about organic molecules from the earliest elements? Experiments, many awarded Nobel Prizes, have found that. But the challenge is not the production of organic molecules, but how to account for the small subset of those—the ones actually used by life— to find each other and organize to work together among the countless combinations…and to accomplish the 3 things necessary at the same time.

The next level of complexity necessary for life creates problems. Amino acids must link up to work together in a soup of chaotic combinations. First you must have the aa’s necessary, then the specific order of aa’s to form a protein. Look at the alphabet of 27 characters including a space. To string together a sentence of 66 characters, such as…“the sequence of letters I am typing gives meaning to this sentence”… offers 27^66 power ways to make the sentence. That is the same as 2.95 x 10^95. That is orders of magnitude larger than the total number of atoms in the universe. (which is only 7 x 10^27).

A problem for OoL is that the sequences must be meaningful and useful, and most proteins have many more than 66 characters. Darwinian selection works fine once we get genetically encoded proteins to work with. But how does it begin? Around 1990, we found that RNA could fulfill many of the roles played by proteins and transmit genetic information. This RNA World Hypothesis has dominated OoL thinking, however it does not solve the challenge that a total mass of RNA far exceeding the mass of our planet would be required to create one sequence capable of catalyzing its own replication by chance alone. The best funded and most prestigious researchers in the field are working to find a way through this puzzle, but none claim to have solved the problem.

In 2016, NASA and the NSF collaborated for the first time in a think-tank (IdeasLab) to rethink the issue. The most important thoughts surround the idea that life seems to have arisen very quickly. Geology and planetary science working together! Nuclear physics tells us that C, H, O2 and N2 are most abundant and capable of forming covalent bonds. Covalent bonds (the opposite type are called ionic bonds) are necessary because carbon molecules interact that way, and thus can share electrons to create long chains of compounds with complexity of life. Ionic bonds, like NaCl or Fe2O3, contribute an electron (from the metal Na or Fe) to the non-metal Cl. or O2. Covalent bonds share electrons. These 4 elements are enough to produce simple cell membranes and sugars and 18 of the 20 aa’s (we need sulfur for the other 2). Now astrobiology is taking center stage on origins because, e.g. Mars has no tectonic plates and is a better geological record of the minerals and conditions present on Earth at the time of origins. And astronomy tells us now that (all ?) stars in the universe are orbited by planets. So there are conditions out there for independent origins for life.

The three major hypotheses for the sequence, even though not reproduced experimentally are:

  1. Oparin-Haldane: 1920s, Russian scientist and an English scientist, separately proposed this gradual arising from inorganic molecules forming aa’s first then combining for complex polymers like nucleotides. An O2 poor atmosphere would donate electrons (reducing)

  2. Miller-Urey: In 1953, experiments showed that organic molecules could be formed from inorganic components. Various aa’s, sugars and lipids were formed, but larger molecules like proteins and DNA never formed. They used H2O, NH3, CH4, and H2 as ingredients. But we now know that the early atmosphere was not what they used and not rich in ammonia and methane.

  3. RNA World: random/chance formation of self-replicating genetic molecules were first.

  4. Living organic compounds arrive by meteorite: Organic molecules from space is another idea, and is supported by reasonable evidence. Various meteorites have contained organic compounds derived from space, one blasted from Mars 17 Mya fell to Earth 13,000 years ago (ALH84001) was discovered in 1984, containing multiple ring structures. Another (Murchison meteorite) carried nitrogenous bases like those found in DNA and RNA as well as aa’s.

History of observations: 3.5 Bya were stromatolites from Western Australia, layers of single-celled microbes such as cyanobacteria.

So assuming that the monomers, building blocks, could be formed, how could they have assembled into polymers or actual biological macromolecules on early Earth? They are put together by enzymes which are themselves polymers. But no one knows whether genes came first or metabolism did. The RNA-World hypothesis favors the former. A self-replicating RNA could pass information from generation to generation. The alternative is that self-sustaining networks of metabolic reactions were first, predating nucleic acids. Then simple pathways might have produced molecules that then act as catalysts for more complex molecules, eventually proteins and nucleic acids. Cell membranes would have been the last step. This could have occurred by simple chemical evolution, not biological evolution.

So how did modern humans evolve? Either by a) evolution simultaneously from earlier, non-modern populations throughout the occupied world, or more likely…b) emerged in a circumscribed geographic region and replaced non-modern populations elsewhere (out-of-Africa). The LUCA for all living humans would have been ~200,000 y.a. The earliest apes were 10 Mya, Gorillas splitting off 9 Mya, Chimpanzees 8 Mya, bipedals 4 Mya, Neanderthals 750,000 y.a. and Homo sapiens 200,000.

In conclusion, there had to be an intelligent designer of some form. Somewhere in the universe. It can not, could not, have happened (statistically) without such. But everything we see and know evolved from some precursor, and it did not begin at Genesis.

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What about the Fungi, etc.?

Interesting post overall, but to accuse Freeland of desperately searching for answers that avoid the necessity for a God seems rather uncharitable at best and borderline grounds for a moderator editing your post.

Are all origin of life researching desperately trying to avoid the necessity for God? I am presently working on a paper related to… gasp… the origins of life. Glad we have people who know the motivations of others to tell those like Freeland and myself what our motivation actually is in doing such research.

I suppose we should ponder if this is also what meteorologists do when they describe the weather? After all, predicting the weather is really difficult to do and there are many unknowns and uncertainties. Maybe we will never be able to fully calculate such complex systems. Plus, the Bible doesn’t even hint that anyone other than God is behind the weather, yet here those godless meteorologists are trying to describe how weather works without God.

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I believe God is our creator but given the poor track record, I tend to avoid god of the gaps arguments because science tends to put nails in those coffins over time. I suspect an explanation for life origin’s will eventually happen but if in the end if it turns out God had to jumpstart life, so be it. Not an issue either way for me.

Genesis and the entire Bible knows next to nothing of science and I also am convinced that though it knows more history than science, it also knows very little of that as well (see Kidner quote above). The goal for me is to try to understand Genesis 1-2 in its proper context. It has nothing to do with science but it is in my Holy Book. So if it was inspired in some fashion, what do I make of it? I think I am in a good place with that question right now. Genesis 3 still throws me for a loop though I lean towards Batto’s interpretation and use think its a very old and primitive story.

And I don’t care that you went off topic as I take threads off topic all the time. You may get more responses though, if you presented your thoughts in a thread dedicated to this issue instead of burying them in between my text walls. Many of your points are worth discussing.

Vinnie

‘Extreme providence’ may be a misnomer or redundant, since all of the workings of God’s providence is beyond our grasp (but very cool), the ‘technology’ he uses to infuse meaning, orchestrating time and material without violating any natural law. ‘Extreme’ is still a valid qualifier, though, in that we are referring to something which we have never seen, except that it is within God’s M.O.

Hi Vinnie. How do you continue to believe in spite of all these contradictions in Scripture and knowing that many events in it are unhistorical? Thank you

While I think there are contradictions in scripture and unhistorical events, I think one of the main points I’ve been trying to make in here is that this often enough misinterprets the genre of some of the works. Genesis 1-2 only contains scientific errors when you make the narratives make scientific statements, they only contradict when you make them fact-literal histories. I don’t think either were intended as such and their function is a theological statement amidst a pantheon of other gods and creation myths. The author who complied both together certainly had no issue with their incongruous parts and I believe their validity needs to be judged in light of this. The monotheism in Genesis is a breath of fresh air.

I also think the Bible serves the purpose for which God intended it. To bring people to salvation and to convict and move us and equip us for every good work. It wasn’t written in heaven. It was written by human authors convicted by the Holy Spirit who nudged them too and fro. If I thought God sat down in heaven and penned scripture himself, it would look mighty different from what we have. God is sovereign. He can speak to us how he chooses. The Bible is interested in reforming behavior and repairing Divine-human relationships through functional stories that are sometimes historical. The Bible just isn’t as interested in historical issues as we are today and a work with errors is not useless.

After doing this research, I think I have a better and deeper understanding of Genesis1-2. Asking if the days of Genesis are literal 24 hours is the wrong question. It is just imposing science on Bible perceived incorrectly to be inerrant. What Christians should be asking is, why don’t I honor the sabbath since the very first chapter of the Bible ties it into the created order? That question doesn’t get nearly enough love in the Church today.

Vinnie

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Thanks for the answer. Do you think Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses are historical figures? Thank you!

Eukaryota includes plants, animals, fungi, and everything closer to them than to Bacteria and Archaea, like members of the SAR supergroup and amoebozoans.

By that logic the events of our memories never happened and we might as well say the universe was created this morning with these fictions implanted in our skulls. NO. The inaccuracies and imposition of meaning upon our understanding of events is NOT a reason to say they did not happen.

When did history become a science? It certainly was no such thing when the Bible was written. Just as with our memories the whole point was to attach meaning to the events of the past so as to learn from them rather than just record the dead trajectories of molecules.

So I am 100% with you when to rail against turning Genesis into some kind of science text book. I agree that is quite obviously no such thing. But I disagree when you demand that it must not be considered historical as if we must equate history with science and forget that our memories are nothing like video recordings.

NO. I say that the story did happen, even if it is not a video recording and its telling is full of symbolism in order to make it all about meaning, which is a greater truth than the mere accuracy of dead measuring instruments.

I certainly did not mean to suggest anything uncharitable about Freeland. My point was actually meant to be a huge compliment to him and his faith, since even his faith does not prevent his very sound scientific analysis of our origins. And even still he concludes that there MUST be a higher power anyway. More credibility might be assigned to one who truly searches for options other than God, and repeatedly returns to a Designer-in-Chief we call God. I’m sorry, prevaquark, that you misunderstood my perhaps poorly worded discourse.

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There are only 3 domains. Eukaryotes includes fungi.

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Thanks for your tolerance, Vinnie. Most who characterize the Bible as “the inspired word of God” believe that it is truly God’s story transmitted into the minds and thoughts of others who then become surrogates for His narrative. It does not threaten my faith, however, to believe that our Holy Book was not inspired in that sense, but rather that many outstanding thinkers and believers were so motivated that they produced The Book. It is their thoughts and opinions, based on great study, faith, debate, and personal communications that led them to put pen-to-paper/papyrus/clay. Of course, you may be right about it being God’s words exactly, but we shall never know. At the very least, if it is not truly His words, He still exists and is responsible for all (most) that follows, it seems to me. Statistically, this cannot possibly be due to random chance alone.

Short answer is not sure. I do not think Genesis is that concerned with history. When it talks about the Patriarchs I believe it is talking about them in a way that gives meaning to their present situation. If I wrote a paper on George Washington I would list a whole bunch of facts about him and details of his life for their own sake. I don’t think Genesis does that. It is not about the facts of Abraham’s life in the past. It’s about Israel and God in the now (at the time the author is writing). With that being said I cannot demonstrate the ahistoricity of theses individuals but nor do I have any plausible evidence for their historicity. There could certainly be historical kernels in these stories that have handed down. So for me I try to see exactly how the author is using these stories and what point the author is trying to teach at the time it was written. Genesis is probably not just listing patriarchal narratives for the heck of it. I do believe that God established a covenant with Israel but given these individuals lived many thousands of years before the stories in the Bible were written down, there are no plausible lines of transmission or any way to know what the historical Abraham was like, assuming he existed.

We have in the Bible some of the most beautiful poetry: pious, lyrical and erotic, and also some of the angriest. We have narratives of epic proportions, aetiologies and folktales that are at times stunningly profound and evocative, romances and adventure stories, some of them are ideologically tendentious or moralistic. There is patent racism and sexism, and some of the world’s earliest condemnations of each. One of the things the Bible almost never is, however, is intentionally historical: that is an interest of ours that it rarely shares. Here and there, the Bible uses data gleaned from ancient texts or records. It often refers to great figures and events of the past . . . at least as they are known to popular tradition. But it cites such ‘historical facts’ only where they may serve as grist for one of its various literary mills. The Bible knows nothing or nearly nothing of most of the great, transforming events of Palestine’s history. Of historical causes, it knows only one: Palestine’s ancient deity Yahweh. It knows nearly nothing of the great droughts that changed the course of Palestine’s world for centuries, and it is equally ignorant of the region’s great historical battles at Megiddo, Kadesh and Lachish. The Bible tells us nothing directly of four hundred years of Egyptian presence. Nor can it take on the role of teaching us anything about the wasteful competition for the Jezreel in the early Iron Age, or about the forced sedentarization of nomads along Palestine’s southern flank. . . . The reason for this is simple. The Bible’s language is not an historical language. It is a language of high literature, of story, of sermon and of song. It is a tool of philosophy and moral instruction.

So If the authors of Genesis wrote in 800BCE, to spitball a semi-random number, I believe they were interested in 800BC and use these stories to that effect. The author is less interested in exactly how these events may have happened 1,000 years prior. I feel the historical questions misses the point of what it is teaching–that is–functional truths. It also holds no punches and does a good job pointing out the flaws in these characters. So I don’t know anything for sure about a historical Abraham. I only know what became of him–the literary Abraham from when Genesis was written. I’m okay with that.

Vinnie

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I don’t believe its his exact words. That is verbal plenary inspiration where God chooses or dictates the very words of scripture. I adhere to a softer model of inspiration whereby Scripture serves the purpose God intended it too.

The point for me is there are too many inaccuracies and too many clearly fictional details to accept these stories as anything but fictional. If I watched a movie on Martin Luker King Jr. that only got 20% of him right it would not be very credible. However, the key difference is I can actually assess to a fair degree of confidence how much of MLK it gets correct because I have credible, contemporary source material including video, newspaper articles, his own writings, etc Not to mention he has children still alive today. I only know that 80% of the details in garden story look plainly fictitious (as you yourself ageree). Neither you or I have any way of actually assessing whether there is a historical core there or not. Or if the remaining is historical or part of the story. But I am treating Genesis the same way I treat the story of Enkidu and Shamhat which has many clear literary parallels to it. Do you think that account is historical as well?

For me history is a science. It is an academic discipline though its methodology and results are not the same as the harder sciences. There are rules to conducting historical research. Take for example, trying to demonstrate the historicity of Lincoln giving the Gettysburg’s address vs there being a special garden with Adam and Eve living in it 6,000 years ago that disobeyed God. I can cite a ton of contemporary primary data authenticating Lincoln’s existence and the he delivered the GA. What about the garden story? Nothing for 3,000 years. Nothing but one mythological narrative countless generations after the fact.

When you have authors in no place to know details of an event, a story being told 3,000 years later with no plausible lines of transmission, clear literary parallels to the similar ancient mythology, many supernatural elements, most details having the clear ring of fiction and no external corroboration or contemporary data lending it credence, its dead in the water.The garden story is ancient myth from start to finish. It has nothing to do with history like most of Genesius which only uses ancient stories to make contemporary points.

Just as I can assert Enkidu was really made from clay, did not know his nakedness, had animals as companions until he was domesticated by the allure of the prostate Shamhat. Once that happened he realized he was naked, God clothed him and the animals were no longer his friends and he gained the ability to reason. Or I could strip all that and say I think Enkidu and Shamhat were real people that were mythologized. That is hardly a meaningful claim because I know nothing about them and I am just asserting the existence of two individuals in antiquity.

Would you so easily label the Gilgamesh epic’s parallels historical as you would the garden story? Gilgamesh himself might have actually been a historical king that was deified. There is some evidence of this. Nothing on Adam and Eve, who also are archetypal for all humans. But what does affirming them as real even mean? “The feuding Montagues and Capulets are based on the real-life Guelphs and Ghibellines of twelfth- through fourteenth-century Verona.” Does this mean we can say Romeo and Juliet are historical?

Vinnie

For certain we all have unprovable beliefs on that issue. It may serve a better purpose to simply state the options existing. Personal beliefs rarely play a major role, that is unless they are Einsteins, Hubble’s, Newton’s or Francis Collins. Those carry a certain gravitas, we would all agree.

The arguments regarding historical/authentic aspects of A&E fail to consider a contextual aspect, as may be found in myths derived from kingdoms in the area. The latter myths were shared by a reasonably large population, and if it involved leaders and kings, records of one sort or another may have been constructed. I am speaking generally. On A&E, the account does not show interactions with kings, nations, empires, etc., and on this basis, it is unreasonable to expect historic material (written or constructed). The account makes mention of a wife found (presumably from another tribe), and subsequent interactions with other humans. Indeed, the only people who may have thought A&E were relevant would be their descendants and it is their oral and written material that has been available.

I am not arguing for or against historicity but point out that the expectations you bring to this discussion may be unrealistic.

GJDS, I assume, without knowing for certain, that everyone on this thread uses the term “myth” to mean a story. It has nothing to do with the authenticity nor whether it is considered a false belief. I assume that is your meaning as well? Most importantly, your insights are well placed about the +/- of accurate historicity and how that affects our expectations on resolution.

My expectations are not unrealistic. I expect historical evidence for historical claims or beliefs. That is as sober as an expectation can be. There simply is none for these two characters some think actually lived 6,000 years ago (or 50,000 or 700,000 depending on which Christians you ask).

I don’t actually expect there to be any historical evidence for Adam and Eve because 1) it is a mythological narrative that has many parallels to another “couple” (Enkidu and Shamhat) who also have no historical corroboration and 2) evidence if it did exist is likely to have been lost to the vicissitudes of time. But it’s plain to me Genesis isn’t interested in writing history here anymore than it is science. And if we want to reconstruct history at best we can infer from it what some Jewish people believed at the time of it’s composition.

So I’d expect to see three things:

(1) I’d like to know the methodology for rejecting the historicity of Enkidu and Shamhat while maintaining belief in the historicity of Adam and Eve. I see it as incorrect theology and fallacious reasoning: “ It’s a story in my Sacred Scripture so it must have a historical core.” Or “The NT requires it.” The latter is worthy of discussion for sure.

(2) I’d also like to see the methodology for distinguishing the clearly fictional elements from historical elements in both stories (e.g.taking snake, magic immortality tree, God not realizing the animals won’t be a suitable companion for Adam etc.).

(3) I’d also like to see evidence Genesis is actually interested in history like we are and we should be interpreting the Garden story as such. I’d like to also see it outside of “Jesus quotes Genesis.”

Vinnie