The Four Views Of Revelation

Faith & Science Conversation
21

Yeah but not the Christians. And we are at least some millions in the world. Or maybe the numbers will have drastically fallen since then?

22

Revelation is the “revealing,” not the “hiding” of “Jesus Christ.” It was revealed by Jesus and about Jesus. His thoughts and plans are clearly revealed to “His bond-servants.” Those who please themselves, living an undisciplined life, cannot see the caring love of God “revealed” in Revelation. Sure there are symbols, but they are either explained in the text or are easily figured out once you research. The reason there are so many interpretations is because, “FACTS ARE DENIGHED.”

23

I don’t know, maybe. Prehaps some Christians will be tricked by the false signs and wonders? IDK, I just do a lot of guessing on this stuff and treat it at a distance as a fail safe so I don’t get sucked really into it as I use to back in my YEC-fundamentalist’s days. I try and connect it to how the early church would have understood these things as in my view when John was giving Revelation to the church in the 1st century, it had to be symbols that Christians in all ages could see and understand, without getting crazy, Revelation talks about a series of events that show chaos in the world through 2nd temple era Jewish apocalyptic imagery that would have made more sense to the 1st century Christians and has lost a good lot of sense for us in the 21st century. But, the main message that has been kept and we should focus in regardless of our views is that Christ will one day return and set up a new creation on earth.

24

While yes Revelation is full of symbolism of Jewish apocalyptic imagery indeed, I feel there is some types of future prophecy within the document, mainly Rev. 13 and Rev. 19-22. Other than these chapters I see revelation from an idealist/allegorical point of view and don’t see it as a dooms day survival manual. The books talks about that despite all the evil and chaos in the world, Christ will have the final victory over all.

25

So good sir whould you mind telling us your interpretation and what have you gotten out of it in searching?

26

Revelation was written about AD 97 and is a prophecy (1:3). Even the seven letters, written to seven churches that existed then, were a prophecy of church history. For example, Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, Sardis the Protestant Church, Philadelphia the brethren movement and Laodicea the proud-of-their-Bible-knowledge people among the brethren. “He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches,” is at the end of these four letters, indicating that all four will exist at the end of the Age. Revelation is a long book! Do you have any specific questions?

27

Im just curious about your position on the book. Do you think the events happened before ? Do you think they refer to a future chain of events?

28

Let’s look at chapter 11, which speaks of “the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.” These are Enoch and Elijah, the only men taken to heaven and thus “the two” that “stand before the Lord.” Jesus told His disciples, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things.” (Matt. 17:11). At least in part, this refers to overseeing the tearing down of “The Dome of the Rock” and the rebuilding of the Temple in its place. Of course, there will be resistance! That’s why, “fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies” (Rev.11:5). I think this will happen starting in 2026–we’ll see! For sure, it is close!

29

From what I get when I read Matt. 17: 11-13 it is talking about John the Baptist.
From what I get from Rev.11 is nothing about the destruction about the Muslim Dome of the Rock but instead the two prophets Enoch and Elijah prophesying and God grants them powers. After a while the beast will appear and slay them and their bodies will lie dead for three days in the streets, afterwards they will be brought back to life and taken up to heaven and the and great earthquake will take place and as the text says, “And in that hour there was a great earthquake, a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and gave glory to God of heaven.” -Rev. 11:13. From what I can get from the text is nothing about the destruction of the Dome of the Rock. From my understanding Rev.11 seems to be a prequel to the events of Rev. 13. If you are willing to explain further on your idea within the text so I can see it better that would be much appreciated. Thanks and bless

30

Matthew 17:11 cannot be about John the Baptist because, he was already there (presently), whereas “Elijah is coming” (future). But, yes, in a sense, “Elijah already came” (v.12), in the person of John the Baptist. This is like saying a great hitter is the return of "Babe Ruth. There are three more points to be made here. 1) In Luke 1:17 it is said of John the Baptist, “It is he who will go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah.” 2) When Jesus was transfigured, Elijah talked with Him. Had Elijah become John the Baptist, in some sort of reincarnation, we’d expect John would be who appeared to Jesus. 3) If John the Baptist was Elijah, then Elijah would’ve died in the person of John the Baptist, yet when John the Beloved wrote Revelation in about AD 96, there were two witnesses who, “stood before the Lord of all the earth,” meaning Enoch and Elijah.
True, “The Dome of the Rock” isn’t specifically named, yet isn’t it amazing that the Bible knew Enoch and Elijah would have to come back for some reason to “restore all things,” by killing multitudes when, “Fire flows out of their mouth” (Matt.17:11, Rev. 11:5). Bible Prophecy is “History Written Beforehand.” In order for it to be true, The Temple must soon be built where The Dome of the Rock is. There is a 100% chance that this will happen! Now this fire out of their mouth, may refer to killing people by speaking. Either way, “all things” will be restored. In Christ, Mike

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31

Thanks for clarifying on that. I didn’t notice that point until you brought it up. Now I see what you are saying.

I will agree with you a temple will be rebuilt of some type and I have been drawing to the idea of it being a literal rebuilt Jewish temple. I feel the rebuilding of the temple will take place near the end of the war spoken of in Daniel 11. and later on after the events of Rev. 13 when the beast heals from his fatal wound he will enter the temple and declare himself LORD. Daniel 11:31 does speak of a conflict arising because of this. The fire coming out of the mouth is symbolic of probably the power of God they have to just kill people right where they stand but who knows?

32

What do you mean by “heals” above? I believe he clearly dies and also clearly is not resurrected!!! How can this be?? What is the answer to this mystery? If he dies and is not resurrected, how can he live? The answer, though somehow isn’t well-known, will be clear after I present the FACTS in this case!

33

The text says, “I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast.” Rev. 13:3. The text at least indicates that the beast will take on some fatal wound and he will be healed from it. How he is I don’t know. But however, this healing from the “fatal wound” will be amazing enough to have the world become fascinated by him. I do believe he in a sense is in a near death situation and may die or it may seem he dies but is brought back to life. Either way, something fatal and near death will take place and whatever sticky situation he finds himself in will look like a miracle and be seen as an act of divinity.

34

No end time theory fits 100%, there are always “buts”…

On Revelation -

  1. The word “soon” is used 8 times when it’s about the Lord’s return.

  2. Rev 22:18 -19 → you are forced to believe Revelation, else…

  3. It’s heavily inspired by OT eye-for-an-eye passages, grace is gone.

35

“The whole earth was amazed” because, they knew he was dead. If you can answer this question, you’ll be able to explain how a dead man can come to life without a resurrection. Here goes: “How is it Antichrist makes a treaty with the Jews at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week (Daniel 9:27), and yet only rules for 42 months (Rev. 13:5), (after he breaks the treaty in the middle of the week and kills Enoch and Elijah) (Dan. 9:27, Revelation 11:7)?” Are we to believe he didn’t rule when he made treaty or what? Certainly that’s not the answer!

36

I am not denying that he dies and comes back to life, I am just also open to the idea that it may also be a near death experience as well. But by the text is shows that he dies and is brought back to life in some manner.

The anti-Christ will be the leader of the nation before he makes the treaty. The little horn arises out of the fourth beast who is Rome, thus the little horn which is anti-Christ will arise from Rome (Italy).

37

Just to add to this the scientist that I am following are showing that there is a series of distasters that happen on earth every 13000 years or so that bear amazing resemblance to that described in revelations 16. The sun essentially micro novas causing these It’s amazing that the Bible describes these disasters. The earths magnetic field is moving and weakening indicating a magnetic excursion which the field will go to essentially zero.

Rev 16-

the first angel poured out his bowl and sores erupted on all that had taken on the mark of the beast and worshipped it.

The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God but they refused to repent

The fifth angel poured out his bowl and the kingdom was plunged into darkness.

The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air came flashes of lightening severe earthquakes every island fled away and the mountains could not be found . Huge hailstones fell on people.

Checkout this out

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38

Yeah but the mark is not here though. Or is it and we havent noticed?

39

Well we don’t know exactly how soon these events will happen but some are estimating around 2046. So we may have some time to go. Just the same the first event is related to something causing sores breaking out on people which may be related to the virus. It is provoking that our rights and freedom of speech are being restricted due to this virus.

40

This might be my last statement on this post over the topic but I have come to some thoughts while looking into this. One, Jesus didn’t really have much of the apocalyptical understanding of the “end” as his Jewish counterparts and thus He taught a much more positive and brighter view of the end then most teach, also I have come to the conclusion that the early church was more prone to understand the millennium as allegorical rather then literal (and in turn all of revelation) and thus I have taken a a preterist-idealist point of view and dropped the entire futurist point of view and thus no future anti-Christ (while the mark of the beast does lead to Nero, I feel its symbolic of more of a system much like how mystery Babylon is) thus I have also dropped premillennialism and am leaning towards postmillennialism again as it seems to align with the positive view Jesus had to the growing and spreading of the Gospel. The earliest parts of the church still had a Jewish mindset to the end and expected these things and it didn’t help that there was constant persecutions to fuel the fire. Afterwards it died down as people sat down and looked deeper into it. It was only with the Protestant Reformation, the Great Awakenings and rise of modern Bible prophecy movements has that futurist form of end times study (re)emerged.

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