I can accept that. I don’t have a problem with treating the Bible as the ultimate spiritual authority in doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness.
What I can not accept is when certain Christians attempt to weaponise Biblical inerrancy in a crusade against established scientific facts, or in an attempt to shut down critique and evade scrutiny, or to try and intimidate other Christians by making themselves look more spiritual than anyone else and trying to outdo each other with their willingness to believe bigger and more extreme absurdities in the name of “my view of the Bible is higher than your view.” That was the sin of the Pharisees, and they were the ones who Jesus was the most scathing about. They were the Biblical literalists of Jesus’s day, the ones who were nearest in their thinking to modern day young earth creationism, and they were the ones that Jesus said had missed it the most totally.
Do you really know what it really means to make the Bible the ultimate spiritual authority in your life, Kelli? It means being prepared to lay down your life for your friends. It means loving your enemies, praying for those who persecute you, and forgiving those who spitefully use you. It means, when you have a child with Down’s Syndrome, or an elderly mother disabled by a stroke, you pour out your life for them, you provide for them, you love them, you take care of them, you protect them, you stand by them and you don’t give up on them, not even if you have to set aside your hopes, dreams, aspirations and career ambitions to do so. It means stopping and giving selflessly to homeless people in the streets without judging them or assuming that they’d just end up spending whatever you gave them on booze or drugs. It means being prepared to take up your cross and to follow Jesus in very practical and down-to-earth ways like that, even if it costs you your very life.
What does the Lord say:
Isaiah 55:11 This way shall My word be which shall go out from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me empty because it shall do that which I shall please.
“Based on that factual statement, no human being, believer or non-believer can ever stop the fulfillment and purpose of the Word of God.”
Pastor Bill Klein
You speak of reality. The reality is we are all sinners in need of redemption. No amount of our so called self righteous acts are pleasing to the Lord. The Lord is only pleased with what He does. Are you a sinner?
I must admit that I don’t. But I can only go on what you’re posting here, which unfortunately doesn’t shed much light on the matter. You’re quoting a lot of Bible verses, and talking a lot about things such as Biblical inerrancy and authority, but over and above that it’s not all that clear exactly what points you’re trying to make.
Here’s the problem. Very often, when people come onto this forum in particular making a lot of noise about Biblical inerrancy and things like that, they are trying to weaponise it in some kind of crusade against established scientific facts, pointing fingers and making accusations against those of us who, as Christians, take scientific findings and scientific methods seriously. (Which we do simply because (a) these subjects are our jobs, and (b) we’ve learned the hard way that not taking science seriously has consequences.) This being the case, it’s all too easy for us to jump to the conclusion that you are doing the same. If that is not your intention, then please forgive us for misunderstanding you, but you do need to make it a bit clearer what your intention actually is – try and stay focused on the topic at hand rather than just taking a scattergun approach of firing off random Bible verses and John MacArthur quotes from the hip.
Yes, as are we all. But distracting from the question at hand, the truth of the realties of God’s creation and how that relates to biblical truth, seems disingenuous.
My intentions were of fellowship. But I am finding out the scriptures aren’t welcomed here. I post too much scripture. Maybe I should quote science books from the hip? Interesting.
If I were a defender of TE, I would be welcomed.
Really? A story in the primeval history tells us he found the aroma of the animal flesh Noah was roasting in his honor pleasing. If we can’t do better than slaughtering an innocent animal and burning it, we are in trouble.
Dale, I was not going to respond to you. It makes it difficult when you address your comments to me. But then at times even when things have been addressed to me, I chose NOT to respond or reply. I do not want to get in a heated argument. If the dialogue is not beneficial to you or I or anyone else, why continue? It isn’t always about winning an argument and chiding one to respond but stepping back and being quiet.
A born again believer loves to fellowship with other believers. We are to be open for correction and the motivation and agenda is to come to know the Truth that sets us free.
Some have an issue with exposing false teaching/doctrine. What is wrong about learning about false doctrine?
It is a warning to us, it is part of the scriptures. I think it is very important.
“If you study the whole New Testament there isn’t any reason why you cannot tell the difference between false teaching and correct teaching of the Bible.”
Pastor Bill Klein
Really?! Probably the majority of us here have a truly deep regard for, and love of, God’s revealed written word in scripture.
For instance I’m a hymnwriter and songwriter. Here, for instance, are my Psalm paraphrases and settings. Why not take a brief glance? (Even if only to see that I take scripture and worship seriously.) Created out of a love for scripture and the church’s expression of her worship through scripture.
And I’m also a life-long scientist, fully accepting the God-given gift of scientific endeavour which leads us towards very ancient universe (~14.5 billion years), ancient earth (nearly 5 billion years) and common-descent evolution.
carefully rooted and grounded in God’s revelation gifted to us in scripture (in this song: Genesis, Job 38-41, Psalms, John 1; Colossians 1, etc.)
specifically appreciative of God’s created order, revealed through his gift of science.
(From your expertise in Hebrew, I’m sure that you’ll recognise the scriptural roots of even the title “chaos and nothingness” poetically resonating with the Hebrew “tohu wa bohu” from Gen.1:2. And if you have queries about the text of the song, see this commentary on it.)
Both science and Biblical study are shaped by interpretation of evidence. The majority of us here love and accept both science and scripture. And we bring our Lord’s command “love the Lord your God with all your mind” to bear on on our scientific interpretation and biblical interpretation.
Stay with us, please, on this journey of interpretation, both scientific and scriptural.
If my understanding of ancient Jewish cosmology is correct, they considered the light coming from the entire sky and the Sun as two separate things. Don’t forget that you can see light coming from the sky while the Sun is not in the sky (i.e. before dawn and after sunset). It also makes a lot more sense when you read Genesis in context where the Sun rules over the sky during the light of the day and the Moon over the dark of the night. They simply didn’t understand that thy light coming from everywhere in the sky was actually scattered sunlight.
Therefore, it could be possible for plants to survive without a Sun within this Jewish cosmology because the light from the sky could power photosynthesis.
Would farmers actually be aware of this? They would be aware that light is needed to see even if they didn’t understand why, but what experience would they have with the lack of light causing plants not to grow? Inquiring minds want to know.
There are many scenarios where they could have gained this knowledge. For example, they could have noticed that some plants don’t grow in the shade of different trees. Perhaps they tried to grow crops in cave systems. Even modern suburban farmers will notice that heavily shaded areas don’t grow a lot of grass.
Things that make you wonder: I have read that some ancients thought vision was accomplished when rays emanated from one’s eyes, and was reflected back to the observer, sort of like sonar. I can’t imagine that anyone would seriously have thought that when you have shadows, dark caves, and torches and campfires that were obvious sources of light, but evidently they did. Perhaps we can relate it the the topic, as an explanatory doctrine (non-religious) based on tradition rather than on evidence. Perhaps we should beware of doctrine in the church that seems more tradition or historically based than scripture and inspiration based. That opens a can of worms, pulling a leg out of the Wesleyan Quadralateral.
Humans were hunters and gatherers long before they grew crops. They would have noticed that plants don’t grow in their caves, don’t grow in the winter, and don’t do well in times of drought.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
63
And it claims it doesn’t see things clearly at all.
