The Fear of Deconstruction and the Unity of the Faith

Holy mother of God, give me the strength…

You’ve misunderstood my argument AGAIN, and I’d like to clarify exactly where the misunderstanding lies.

I’m not comparing one person’s ignorance with another person’s knowledge and concluding that their claims are incompatible because of that difference.

That’s not my argument at all.

I’m distinguishing between someone’s knowledge of a proposition and the logical relationship between two propositions.

Consider the following three statements:

  1. “The elephant has a trunk.”

  2. “The elephant has no trunk.”

  3. “I don’t know whether the elephant has a trunk.”

The first and second statements are contradictory, provided they concern the same elephant in the same sense and at the same time.

The first and third, however, are perfectly compatible.

Ignorance is not negation.

If someone simply doesn’t know whether the elephant has a trunk, that person’s ignorance does not contradict the claim that it has one, but if that person positively asserts that the elephant has no trunk, then we have two contradictory propositions.

And their incompatibility has absolutely nothing to do with how much either person knows: it follows from what the propositions actually assert.

Nor am I claiming that I know which proposition is true merely because I can recognize their incompatibility. That’s precisely the distinction I’ve been making.

If you believe that two particular theological statements I’ve described as contradictory are actually compatible, I’m perfectly willing to examine that possibility: you would simply need to show how both propositions can be true without changing their intended meanings.

But pointing out that one person may be ignorant or making an assumption does not establish such compatibility.

You’re addressing the epistemic justification for a belief, whereas I’m addressing the logical relationship between propositions. These are different questions, and neither can be reduced to the other.

And I’m not “obsessed with contradiction.” Contradiction is simply the logical issue raised by the attempt to reconcile mutually exclusive doctrinal claims through the elephant analogy.

I’m happy to move beyond the general principle and discuss specific doctrines, but first we need to agree on what the principle actually says.

Lack of knowledge may explain why someone makes a claim. It does not determine whether that claim is logically compatible with another.

My work is all about the unity faith. But it goes far beyond mere Christianity and the novelist CS Lewis. The unity of faith needs to be able to incorporate all of humanity in the many various religions that have been taught throughout time.

The only problem I see here on this platform is that there’s a very narrow audience who participates in such discussions, and they have difficulty seeing outside of their own religious sect. We can’t look for unity until we first tear down the walls of the man-made religions that have been created around the words of the prophets and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

It doesn’t need to be two groups, or even two individuals.

When a term is used twice with completely different definitions by the same person, that’s also equivocation.

The example that comes to mind is the use of ‘God’ to refer to both Aristotle’s prime mover and the Christian deity as described in the Bible, despite the latter having additional characteristics.

You assume that no 2 is an assertion rather than
I do no know (because no one told me, or my faith does not include it) or words to that effect

You assume the presence of a trunk is essential.

Richard

Ye e e s

Been here somewhere else.

Perhaps the word God can be generic and accepted as such, like the use of Theistic (as opposed to A Theistic)

There is no equivocation just misunderstanding (deliberate or othrewise) and nitpicking.

Or maybe

stirring

Richard

There is equivocation whenever someone uses Aristotle’s arguments about the prime mover as evidence for the existence of the Christian God - which I have seen many times and will no doubt see again.

P.S. lack of ‘k’ noted.

We absolutely need to distinguish three separate questions here.

First, whether two propositions are logically contradictory.

Second, whether particular Christian doctrines actually express those contradictory propositions.

Third, whether the doctrines in question concern essential matters of faith.

These are distinct questions, and my example was intended to illustrate the first.

When I say, “This elephant has a trunk” and “This same elephant has no trunk,” I’m explicitly presenting two contradictory assertions.

I’m not assuming that the second statement expresses a denial. It is, by its very wording, a denial.

If you replace it with “I don’t know whether the elephant has a trunk” or “My tradition doesn’t teach that the elephant has a trunk,” you have changed the proposition, and I would readily agree that those alternative statements are not contradictory to the first.

But that is precisely my point: the absence of knowledge is not equivalent to the denial of a proposition.

As for whether the trunk is essential, that is irrelevant to establishing the logical contradiction: two propositions can contradict one another regardless of whether the property they concern is essential or accidental.

Now, if your argument is that certain disagreements between Christian traditions concern incomplete knowledge rather than genuine doctrinal contradictions, that’s a perfectly legitimate argument to make, but it requires examining the actual doctrines and demonstrating that their incompatibility can be resolved or that it was never a true incompatibility to begin with.

The elephant analogy cannot establish that merely by being invoked.

I’m not claiming that every doctrinal difference constitutes a contradiction, nor that every contradiction concerns an essential matter of faith. What I’m saying is that when two doctrines genuinely affirm and deny the same proposition (or when their logical implications entail mutually incompatible states of affairs) they cannot both be true in the same sense and under the same conditions.

Whether a particular theological disagreement meets that condition is a further question, surely we can distinguish between demonstrating that two propositions are contradictory and demonstrating which of them is true.

The former does not require the latter.

Sorry, that is not something i am familiar with. I looked it up and got bored very quickly. It would seem to be an attempt to reinterpret Aristotle but I have not gone far enough to confirm or deny It.

As an Apologist I would find it hard to defend such an approach, but, perhaps, I would need more information and it really does not interest me.

Richard

Edit

It seems that the mute point is whether Aristotle was talking about a specific (Christian) God or just the probable (possible) existence of a God (or gods). Naturally the Christian Apologist will infer it is the Christian God as they would not admit to the existence of any other (or other belief)

I think your claim is a little too sweeping and categoric, and I would also distinguish more carefully between equivocation, an incomplete demonstration, and an invalid inference, because there are three distinct things.

Equivocation occurs when a term changes meaning within an argument and that shift is improperly used to support a conclusion, but establishing the existence of something under a particular description, without thereby establishing every attribute it possesses, is not equivocation.

Think about Aquinas, who explicitly employs Aristotelian metaphysical principles in his First Way (Summa Theologiae, I, q. 2, a. 3).

Aquinas argues from motion, understood metaphysically as the actualization of potentiality, toward the existence of a First Unmoved Mover, but notice what he does next: he doesn’t claim that this argument, taken by itself, establishes the Trinity, the Incarnation, or every other truth revealed by Christianity.

Instead, he proceeds to investigate the attributes of this First Principle through further philosophical reasoning, addressing divine simplicity, perfection, goodness, infinity, immutability, eternity, unity, knowledge, and other properties.

And when he comes to the Trinity, Aquinas explicitly states that it cannot be demonstrated by natural reason (Summa Theologiae, I, q. 32, a. 1).

This distinction is not merely a peculiarity of Thomistic philosophy. It is also reflected in the dogmatic teaching of the First Vatican Council.

In Dei Filius, chapter II, the Council teaches that the one true God, the beginning and end of all things, can be known with certainty through the natural light of human reason from created things. *

Yet in chapter IV, the same Council distinguishes truths accessible to natural reason from supernatural mysteries that cannot be known without divine revelation. **

Indeed, the first canon on faith and reason explicitly condemns the proposition that all the dogmas of faith can be understood and demonstrated through natural reason alone.

In other words, Catholic theology explicitly distinguishes between knowing that God exists, knowing certain attributes of God through natural reason, and knowing the supernatural mysteries of His inner life through revelation.

There is no equivocation inherent in that distinction.

Now, suppose an argument successfully establishes the existence of a First Unmoved Mover, that conclusion doesn’t, by itself, establish that the First Unmoved Mover is the Holy Trinity, i agree entirely with this, but the fact that an argument doesn’t establish every attribute of a proposed being does not mean that it cannot establish something relevant to that being’s existence.

Christian classical theism maintains that God is the ultimate, uncaused source of all created reality: consequently, an argument establishing the existence of such a First Principle would establish something that Christian classical theism affirms about God.

It would not establish the whole of Christian theism, nor would it distinguish Christianity from every other metaphysical or religious worldview. But it could still contribute to a cumulative argument for Christian theism.

For example, if a conclusion establishes that a First Cause exists, and Christian theism holds that God is that First Cause, we have established a proposition consistent with and required by that conception of God, we have not thereby established every additional proposition Christian theology makes about Him.

To infer those additional propositions without further premises would indeed be unjustified, but an unjustified inferential leap is not automatically equivocation.

There is also another important distinction: Aquinas does not simply adopt Aristotle’s entire conception of the divine without qualification.

Aristotle’s own account of the Unmoved Mover, particularly its relationship to the world, differs in significant respects from the Christian understanding of God as Creator.

Aquinas takes elements of Aristotelian metaphysics, develops arguments from them, and integrates their conclusions into a broader philosophical and theological framework, but using an Aristotelian argument is not equivalent to endorsing every belief Aristotle held about its conclusion, and there is nothing logically illegitimate about correcting, developing, or extending an earlier philosophical argument, provided the relevant conclusions are properly justified.

So I would distinguish the following claims:

First: Aristotle’s argument, by itself, establishes the entire Christian doctrine of God, including the Trinity.

That is false.

Second: Aristotelian metaphysical arguments can establish, or contribute to establishing, certain truths about the existence and nature of the First Cause, which Christian theology identifies with the God revealed in Scripture.

That doesn’t necessarily involve equivocation at all.

Of course, the arguments must succeed on their own terms, and the identification of the First Cause with the Christian God must be justified rather than merely asserted, but that is an issue concerning the validity and completeness of the demonstration, not automatically an issue of equivocation.

So i would say that your use of the word “whenever” is therefore unjustified.

To establish equivocation in a particular argument, you need to identify the precise term whose meaning changes, explain the two meanings involved, and show how the argument relies on that shift to reach its conclusion, simply observing that the Christian God possesses attributes not established by Aristotle’s argument does none of those things.

A proof of some attributes of a being is not necessarily a proof of all its attributes, but neither is it an equivocation merely because it is incomplete.

And a difference between two descriptions does not, by itself, establish a difference in the reality being described.

*1. On the natural knowledge of God

First Vatican Council, Dei Filius, Canons, II — On Revelation, Canon 1 (Denzinger–Hünermann, DH 3026): “If anyone says that the one true God, our Creator and Lord, cannot be known with certainty through created things by the natural light of human reason, let him be anathema.”

**2. On the mysteries of faith and natural reason

First Vatican Council, Dei Filius, Canons, IV — On Faith and Reason, Canon 1 (Denzinger–Hünermann, DH 3041): “If anyone says that divine revelation contains no mysteries truly and properly so called, but that all dogmas of faith can be understood and demonstrated by adequately cultivated reason on the basis of natural principles, let him be anathema.”

  • You’d make more progress faster if you talked to a rock.
  • I googled this: “Is the law of noncontradiction important in Mathematics?” and Google says:

Yes, the law of non-contradiction (\(\neg(p \land \neg p)\)) is foundational and critically important in standard mathematics. It states that a proposition and its logical negation cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. [1, 2, 3]

Why It Is Important in Mathematics

  • Proof by Contradiction (Reductio ad Absurdum): This core mathematical proof technique relies directly on the law. To prove a theorem \(p\), you assume its opposite (\(\neg p\)), show that it leads to an impossible contradiction (\(q \land \neg q\)), and conclude that the assumption was false, meaning \(p\) must be true. Classic examples include the proof that \(\sqrt{2}\) is irrational. [1, 2]
  • Prevention of Trivialism (Principle of Explosion): Standard logic operates on the principle of explosion, which means that if a contradiction is allowed to be true, any arbitrary statement (and its opposite) can be proven. If mathematics accepted contradictions as true everywhere, the entire system would collapse into triviality where no meaningful distinction between true and false equations could be maintained. [1]
  • Foundational Consistency: The integrity of mathematical definitions, theorems, and structures (such as algebra, real analysis, and geometry) depends on consistency—meaning a mathematical object cannot simultaneously possess a property and lack it in the same context. [1]

Exceptions and Nuances

While classical mathematics relies completely on this law, alternative systems exist:

  • Paraconsistent Logics: These are non-classical logical systems that deliberately reject or weaken the law of non-contradiction so they can reason about inconsistent information or paradoxes without triggering the principle of explosion. However, these are specialized branches of logic rather than standard practice in mainstream mathematics. [1]

Would you like to explore a specific example of how proof by contradiction works in a famous mathematical proof (like the irrationality of \(\sqrt{2}\))?

1 Like

I would leave this to people more well-learned than i am in mathematics. :laughing:

This is why i was thinking that, maybe

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I’ve genuinely never met someone like him. He is one of a kind. Truly.:smiley:

But that’s not using Aristotle’s arguments as evidence for the Christian God. It’s using Aristotle’s arguments for the prime mover then ‘confirming’ the characteristics of that prime mover match those of the Christian God. No equivocation.

I agree that Aristotle’s argument, taken in isolation, does not establish the full Christian conception of God, and that identifying the Prime Mover with the God of Christian revelation requires further justification. But that was my point.

An argument can contribute to a cumulative case without independently establishing its entire conclusion, and if Aristotelian reasoning establishes certain properties of a First Principle, and further arguments establish additional properties and justify its identification with the God of classical theism, then the original argument has contributed to the overall case.

Whether those further arguments succeed is a separate question, and even if someone makes an unjustified leap from the Prime Mover to the Christian God, that does not automatically establish equivocation: it may simply be an invalid inference.

So I agree with your distinction, but I don’t think it supports your original claim that using Aristotle’s arguments as evidence for the existence of the Christian God necessarily involves equivocation.

To establish that, you would need to identify an actual change in the meaning of a term within the particular argument.