One interpretation is he was supposed to feel abandoned. The suffering servant. And in context Mark might mean “abandoned to death.” Jesus had a close follower betray him, his other followers abandoned him. Everyone else mocked and laughed at him. In his deepest, darkest moment, as darkness had just crept over the world, Jesus felt what it is like to be fully human in the deepest sense imaginable.
In no way shape or form did the Father ever abandon Jesus in the way you are suggesting. We saw Jesus in the garden just praying that the cup might pass. Now he quotes psalm 22 knowing that the Father is letting him die. The spam does end triumphantly but I’m not sure that is Jesus’ point. He could have quoted the end instead of it was.
The mere fact that Jesus, who was fully human, feels this way after being beaten, whipped and abused and hung on a cross for 9 hours is not surprising. Nor does the statement indicate a universal truth that the Father is gone from. That is your hang up. You seem to think because Jesus felt abandoned, a natural human thing, he was abandoned. How many people have felt abandoned before? We’re they actually abandoned by God. You are looking at the words of Jesus here like they are all fact-literal universal mandates. They are nothing of the sort. It means Jesus felt rejected by God. He is in the midst of being tortured and crucified. What do you want him to feel besides pain and defeat when he offered the world love and it gave him this in response. Like I always say, most Christians only pay lip-service to the humanity of Jesus.
Yes he did suggest that possibility. The reasons are
Demonic activity is very significant throughout Mark.
Asc Isa 4:5 shows satan was sometimes responsible fo strange astronomical phenomenon (causes the moon to appear in the sixth hour).
1 QH 13(5):24-34 shows that some blamed Satan for the darkness or depression that changes the mood of God’s chosen ones.
One of Satans goals is to get people to curse God an die through feeling abandoned (Job 1:11; 2:5,9). Note Jesus does not curse God but feels abandoned.
Crying out with a loud voice here is exactly what demonized people and only them do in Mark (1:26, 5:7, c. 9:26).
“Although Mark does not say so explicitly, therefore, the inferences from his narrative may be that Jesus, on the cross, suffers such a sudden and intense Satanic assault and in some ways becomes like a man possessed.” Joel Marcus
Again, this is just a possible interpretation and note he does not say Jesus was possessed. Just that Satan’s assault on him during his most vulnerable time is severe. Ask yourself this. If you think Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, why would he not be there at his death, during his deepest, darkest moment?
Not to mention the darkness harkens back to Amos 8:11-12 and it is a real darkness that can be felt (Exodus 10:21). Jesus feels it.
So this is one way a few have taken it. Jesus does not fail, he does not curse God and he loudly yells and the temple tears in two assuring us that Jesus is still God’s son and not actually abandoned like many other intertextual clues.
God (or the Second Person of the trinity to be precise or Jesus) cant get possesed.
And again the Father left the Son. If the Father had not leave the Son woukd Jesus have felt that way? Would Jesus have felt such cruel and sad feelings ? I find it cruel for the Father to leave the Son in his most time of need. And yet Mary which gave birth to him was there.
So Jesus feels forsaken - and cries out in that very passion. Does that mean that God actually has forsaken him? Are your feelings always accurate indicators of reality? Is Jesus not permitted to feel the full horror and pain of his own situation, hanging on the cross?
As you note - his own family and followers (even deserting him as they had) were nonetheless there - even if at a distance. So how ‘forsaken’ was he? Is God not present to him and you and me even if we don’t always feel it?
The problem is : Was the human Jesus felt forsaken?Or the divine one?
Better putted did the Jesus felt forsaken or The Son?If the Son did there are other questions which that answer raises .Your argument applies only if the human Jesus felt like that .
Did you not read what I wrote? He said like a person possessed. Joel Marcus writes with the Catholic seal of approval. He is not going to claim Jesus was possessed by a demon. But that doesn’t mean Mark, which has a lot of demonic agency in It, could not narrate something close to it.
I feel you are confusing Jesus’ condition of feeling abandoned with actually being abandoned in a universal sense. @Mervin_Bitikofer use of italic puts it nicely.
As an alternative Psalm 22 does end in Triumph but I don’t think that interpretation is the sense the text suggests. Certainly a possibility.
I do not believe that Jesus was actually abandoned by His Father, although a feeling of separation and abandonment was felt by Him. It’s part of His eternal solidarity with all who have been forsaken. He enters into the lowest depths of human suffering and alienation.
Some have argued that Psalm 22 came to His mind but the psalm actually ends in victory.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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Indeed, they’re not the same. They’re superpositioned. I’m sure He knew which was which: no confusion there.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
PROFOUND MYSTERIES that we can enjoy. We don’t need to have all the answers. We can sit back, relax and marvel at Who this GODMAN was and is, knowing we are more valuable to him than his own life. Imagine that! I think that is the takeaway from these incredible verses. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
I think you all have missed something. Jesus was dying for he the sin and sins of the entire world, including you and I, Hitler, Stalin, 45, Clintons, whomever.
This was no walk in the park. It was a super special event that no one enjoyed, not the Son and not the Father. Both suffered immeasurably because they were separated from each other by OUR sin, yours and mine, which Jesus took voluntarily on Himself.
While He must have been sorely tempted to give up on us, He did not. His matchless love defeated evil and saved our butts, and all others who trust in the forgiveness and grace of God, rather than “good works.”
We haven’t missed it, well at least not all of us. I have rejected that interpretation. I don’t think sin is something you can literally take on. I can sin and I can jump. I sinned this morning. I jumped this morning. God can’t take on my “sin” anymore than he can take on my “jump”. What am I missing? The sentence itself seems unintelligible to me. Is sin an actual thing or being that can be taken on? Is it an action?
You also have the curious notion of God being separated from Himself and not being able to look upon Himself. Was the Trinity broken for a while? The Triune God was no longer One?
In Leviticus chapters 1–7 we find detailed instructions for offering sacrifices—five regular offerings that will invade all of the Israelites’ senses, informing their minds and engaging their hearts in regard to the seriousness of sin as well as the possibility and provision of a substitute. Nancy Guthrie
We may not grasp fully the role of sacrifices made to God like the ancient Hebrews did, but we can learn. We may never understand fully why God instituted a system requiring the shed blood of his son, but He followed through and became sin who knew no sin.
If my child was seriously injured and became a crumpled, bloodied, grotesque version of his former self, I’d be so sick in pain I couldn’t look at him. But, he’s my child.
Maybe because He has an Evil nature as well? Vindictive might be better. Remember what happened woth Isaac? “Yeah bro just sacrifice your child to show me your loyal to me” and then The Father is like “Its just a prank bro dont do that”.
Same thing with Christ. Sent him like a pig for slaughter
