The Extent of Consciousness

I think it is as absurd to talk about cells doing things because they have different properties as it is to talk about people doing things because they have different properties. There is a huge difference between cells and atoms. Atoms have no awareness of their environment or themselves. There are no mechanisms for self maintenance in an atom. A cell does things because it already has a directedness in its agenda to survive.

Is the formation of an embryo really just a clockwork mechanism? Is everything that happens all planned? Surely you cannot think so. There is constant assault by viruses, radiation, micro-organisms, and substances of varying toxicity. And survival depends on the embryo having enough adaptability to handle all of these things. “It’s alive.”

So there is a third option between these ridiculous extremes – not all according to some intelligent chess player and not a clockwork mechanism either, but a living organism adapting to all the things happening in order to survive. To be sure the clockwork mechanism fits better than the chess player, but this clockwork metaphor has its limitations also. And there is a directedness to the process because it is the product of millions of years adaptation to give it whatever abilities are needed to survive.

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You might like “The Living Energy Universe” by Gary Schwartz and Linda Ruskin. Seems the whole universe is alive. Enjoy

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Seems they have very creative imaginations.

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Like Edgar Allan Poe in his “Eureka”

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Don’t recognize it. If I’ve read it, it will have been over half a century ago. ; - )

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He pretty much gives every scientist and philosopher the finger and delves into his own pantheistic ideas and cosmology; interestingly, Poe was right about the universe having an infinitesimal beginning.

Here’s a good breakdown:

If I’d read it, I would have remembered it!

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No. It is not.

You can find many self-organizing processes in the universe. And life is a self-organizing process. But most self-organizing processes are not alive – not living organisms. There is a good reason to make a distinction. Just because something is self-organizing doesn’t mean it has the environmental awareness/responsiveness, self-maintenance, and ability to learn which are a basic necessity for all living organisms. You can find some of these in non-living processes – like in the way a hurricane (or the red spot on Jupiter) will absorb energy from its surroundings to maintain its own dynamic structure. Or we can program a computer with ability to learn so that it plays games like chess better than we can. But a living organism requires all of these not just some of them: self-organization, environmental awareness/responsiveness, self-maintenance, and the ability to learn/adapt.

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Hi @mitchellmckain,
If you are responding to the quote I posted from the interview with Hardin, I recommend looking at more of the transcript or listening to the podcast. At this point he was trying to translate for the public what is quite technical. I think you would actually probably find this part of the discussion of cell movement in the development of the embryonic digestive system in sea urchins interesting.

Pretty wild stuff. I haven’t had a chance to watch the video but did check it out on wikipedia.

“Because Nothing was, therefore All Things are”

It’s interesting to consider what one really means by Nothing given the unobservable nature of an infinite being.

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I was mistaken by a rewilded jackdaw for his carer; we both had copper beards.

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