I do not know what to say about the act of suicide itself, but I often read about suicides that are caused by extremely traumatic events like the Holocaust, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, or the mass rapes in the Bosnian War (1992-1995).
I think God never wants suicide, but I think he is rather angry at the unjust conditions, not at the people who see suicide as the only option. While I am sure that many suicidal people do not experience these extraordinary circumstances, I suspect what help make or break suicide is the cohesiveness of community and the way the community responds to their needs because God created humans as social beings.
Although many black communities are either as poor or poorer than white working-class communities in America, they experience less suicides partly due to communal support from black churches which have a historical role in black community formation and cohesion. In contrast, many white working-class Americans experience a breakdown of community support and thus develop the feeling of anomie. (1) That feeling is opposite to the World War II notion of solidarity that still felt strong in the 1950s, the heyday of the white working class when the poor and the rich socialized with each other more often and the wealth gap was smaller.
I imagine rejection from the community to be the most painful, which many Bosnian War rape survivors experienced as members of patriarchal societies that victim-blamed women. Many succumbed to suicide, but the ones who did not succumb may have communal support from other women who understand their experiences.
You are misinterpreting. I donât claim that we have any control over our circumstances. I just donât think our circumstances are what is important compared what we choose to think and do about them.
Agreed! Just because death is the result of a choice you make doesnât make something suicide.
I am reminded of a favorite book by Stephanie Meyers âThe Host,â which begins with the main character seeking to kill themselves. This was not an act of suicide at all but quite the opposite.
You mean there isnât much you can do to change your circumstances, which is not the same thing. I envision myself in a jail cell and I know that there is a lot I can do. I cannot be surprised that a failure of imagination results in saying âlife sucksâ to yourself all the time. That in itself is one of the things you can choose to do, but it is a poor choice.
And the habits of thought from those who raise you is what I think to be one of the more important factors in this.
Like do what? You are in a cell alone. No books no nothing. Only food. You cant write,read or talk with anyone. What are you gonna do? Not a lot of choises i suppose. Do you endure it? Or do you chose an esy way out? Because eventually you will get mad. Imagine all those convicts on isolation. What can they do when they are in there? Sure they could have prevented it with good planing (like for example not beign a jerk to other prisoners) . But thats in the past. What do they do now ?its those situations and a whole lot others that you really need to endure or either youll get mad.
Physical excercise.
Write books in my head.
Make up puzzles in my head and their solutions.
Prayer.
Play games I already know and invent new ones.
Study my body â its structure, reactions, control.
Conduct experiments with sleep, dreaming and bodily functions.
Exercise my other senses, like listening for the sounds of other people and creatures.
Explore the details of my memories of events, books, and people.
âŠ
and keep thinking of more things that I can doâŠ
4 yearsand those things will be like a routine .You will feel lonely eventually and burnt out. So no it wont work. Those guys (a lot of them at least)that come out of isolation? Yeah they bat s** mad(excuse me for the language). Not many think to do these things in there . Because they are already broken. And if they do theyll eventually stoped if they are for a long time in there
And dont get me wrong . I like the mentality " stop bi** ing about it and do something" but some people are not so emotionaly and mentaly strong to do so.
You can only speak for yourself. 4 years and I will just be getting started. Some people actually prefer the removal of all the âmeaninglessâ distractions in life.
Now I do believe that others would have a hard time with this. I wouldnât call it strength though. Just because interactions with other people have never been so crucially important to me, doesnât mean I am stronger or that other people are weaker. We are simply better adapted to different circumstances.
Iâm not sure if you understand me. My comment favors @Christyâs perspective on circumstances which I take a historical perspective on. I mean people donât make choices in a vacuum, and some people have more freedom of choice than other people despite living in a society that promises individual freedom.
The main point of my comment is about the importance of communal support which ameliorate negative circumstances that some people inhabit and canât just simply pack up and move. I think life does suck for many individuals, but life is better when one has communal support because they have people to relate to and share in their struggle. They find meaning and fulfillment through their community and hopefully overcome their challenges.
When Emile Durkheim developed the concept of anomie, his society was going through the industrial revolution. Our society is going through a combination of post-industrialization and globalization, a similar process of societal changes that produce a sense of dislocation and anomie for the âlosersâ left behind. In our post-industrial market society, many people feel that their communities are increasingly becoming transient and atomized into smaller bits.
Absolutely, there is nothing universal or guaranteed about our freedoms. Simple awareness of available choices alone makes a big difference. But it is subject to all kinds of conditions such as medical, chemical, etcâŠ
LOL People say that of others when they donât want to live in the same conditions. That doesnât mean their life actually sucks let alone that they would rather not live it.
Yes. People in some places are finding different things to value in life and reason to be less convinced that the local community is a reliable source of meaning.
Eventually I expect that we will discover that we all lose when we fail to help people realize their full potential.
I agree with much written above about Godâs compassion and forgiveness
Perhaps this passage could help. Paul discusses his struggles, which sounded unbearable. Christians who are the closest to God have great struggles and those struggles can draw us closer to him.
2 Corinthians 1:
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.
8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about the troubles we experienced in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. 9 Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.
I would meditate. I havenât done really long retreats but I have done six week retreats, meditation from 4am to 11 pm every day. Monks meditate in caves for years. You donât go mad. And if you earn Godâs Grace you can be enlightened by the end of it.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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Itâs often helpful to test an idea in the extreme. Picture sitting on the 14th floor windowsill of a burning building. My choices are to sit there and over 15 minutes cook to death or jump. I canât imagine God being angry with me for jumping.
Good example. I had thought of those who jumped from the World Trade Center. Also, it brings up the question of martyrdom when some essentially elect to take their lives rather than comply with some request. What principles guide you there? Or the people who took their lives at Masada. Life is messy.