My PhD is in electrical engineering not history. I will defend any claim I make in my field.
I am so vehement in my efforts to get people to stop rejecting the results of science.
You can still predict a hurricane to a certain degree. You can study and know something about it. You can give a pretty good explanation by what causes it. Science is about analyzing and making predictions … If there’s no order or structure to the Universe then science can’t make a prediction so you’re statement is logical.
I think you have a misunderstanding of prayer. Prayer isn’t always a supernatural miracle … Where you pray for healing and then you’re instantaneously healed (though sometimes it can work like that). If you pray for help that help doesn’t have to be a supernatural event … It can be an unexpected help from a neighbor, or a family member. People don’t pray for healing and then refuse medial help from a surgeon… That can be the very help that God sent. If we are made in His image then obviously he can work through us.
And my last comment is that you seem to define progress purely by technological advances and living conditions. I have a friend that travelled to Thailand where many people live beneath cardboard and barely have anything… And yet she told me that the children there were more joyful than most kids she has seen in America: despite our iPhones, iPads, running water, internet, fast food etc., etc., obviously there’s something more to joy and progress than mere leisure and comfort.
You seem eager to live in Brave New World. I’m not eager.
-Tim
There is structure to the universe. And yes that is what has been achieved by science and technology. We can predict the path of hurricanes, prepare for hurricanes, make building better prepared for hurricanes.
Prayer is doing nothing. It has been shown in many double blind experiments that efficacy of prayer is zero. One group of people praying show no differences over a group of people not praying. This is shown over all religions and for all purposes of prayer. And yes many people pray AND refuse medical treatment for themselves and loved ones. It happens every day in this country.
Sure, joy is not define by what technology one has but it sure is much joyous to live with clean water, good medical care, safe food, good education.
You only have one world to live it. The world you are in at this moment of time. Make the best of it here and now.
Where’s the bluff and fake? ID?
You make numerous claims about ID that are not defended nor explained.
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I stand by that claim.
@Eddie wants you to provide an article, link or statement of evidence that supports your claim.
George
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Thank you. That’s what I meant by chaos and order. Now that you’ve acknowledge that there is structure that can be studied, comprehended, predicted etc., we go back to my original question: Does it make sense to put confidence in your ability to reason, when that reason arose out of random-chance accidents? Why should I trust my ability to think and come to meaningful conclusions when I’m nothing more than a manifestation of particles that has been pieced together by accidental causes?
“Prayer is doing nothing. It has been shown in many double blind experiments that efficacy of prayer is zero. One group of people praying show no differences over a group of people not praying. This is shown over all religions and for all purposes of prayer. And yes many people pray AND refuse medical treatment for themselves and loved ones. It happens every day in this country.”
Doing experiments on a group prayer sounds like an odd thing to be doing. Especially when it’s typically a personal endeavor, as well as, in essence, saying, “If it be Your will let it be so.” … How can you even begin to know what it is that should and shouldn’t happen, since we are not existing everywhere? Thinking of God like a Ouija Board, or a Divine Blessing Machine, is probably the source of your confusion — and probably the source of confusion for people that refuse medical help too!
As to your conversation with Eddie, you clearly said that the Church has had disdain for every scientific discovery for the last 500 years. And then later claimed that you didn’t care what the Church thinks. If that’s so then why did you make such a statement in the first place since you obviously do care what the Church thinks and make bold claims without providing evidence … If you don’t see that as self-contradictory then I’m not sure what to say. Especially from a person that claims to be scientifically minded, I would think investigation would be natural.
On a more personal note, I’ve noticed that you, at one point (well actually multiple points) have stated that you think it’s impossible to harmonize theology and science. And other times you’ve alluded too thinking the mission of BioLogos as an honorable one. I’m not sure how can think that what BioLogos is attempting to do as simultaneously being honorable and impossible. If it’s impossible then I’m not sure why one would attend such a site. Just my thoughts.
-Tim
The confidence should not be put into one individuals ability to reason, it should be put into the entire human race’s ability to reason and come up with both the science and technology to improve people’s lives. Set up research institutes, develop new technologies. This takes millions of people to accomplish. That is why science education is so important. And science education that is unencumbered by the mythology and superstitions of the past.
The value of prayer is testable. It is a valid area of medical and psychological research. Do cancer patients who pray have improved outcomes? Unfortunately no. Do cancer patients who think positively lave better outcomes? Again unfortunately no. Does research into genomics to come up with better treatments help? A resounding yes.
Because I really want the Church to stay out of science’s business. Seeing a parent withhold life saving treatments for their children is heartbreaking, especially if it has some religious overtones to it. Even seeing the Church getting involved in what medical treatment is okay and what is not is totally evil.
I do think it is impossible to harmonize science and theology completely but I think that organizations like Biologos could harmonize science and YECs. I never realized until coming to the boards that there were young people who believed that dinosaurs and people co-existed. I thought Ken Ham had just a few old-timers hanging on to 19th Century beliefs. It has been an eye opener that there are a good portion of millennials who have been so indoctrinated into a cult-like literal view of an old book. Catholics never had this mindset. So I was astonished to talk with young people who actually think that way. What Biologos is trying to do for these folks is really honorable and really needed. All the staff of Biologos are doing an important job in trying to undo the harmful indoctrination these young people have gotten. That is the reason I attend. I like how Biologos goes about their work. I like how you go about your discovery. I try to add on the science side whatever I can. I also am here to should that a person who came to an agnostic view is not th devil or anti-Christ but just a moral human being like them who lives with purpose and meaning in their life. According to Ken Ham, people like me don’t exist.
Yea Eddie wants a lot of things. Maybe I will wrap all ID in a little tiny box and give it to him as a Christmas, I mean, Winter Solstice present. 
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Yes I have every right, it is called freedom of speech.
It is ironic that the person (you) least willing to offer details or information that can advance our discussions - - is also the one who places so many demands and restrictions on fellow participants on these Boards.
One might suppose that you are not interested in advancing the discussion, but in silencing it.
George
Eddie,
Your PhD is pretty much worthless in today’s secular scientific society.
I stand by my claim.
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Eddie, with the vastness of your humanitarian gestures … and over all these years … how is it that we are only now confirming that Collins does believe that God GUIDED evolution?
It would seem to suggest you’ve been wasting everyone’s time.
George
Yes, New Jersey Engineers are not know for their social graces. Look at our Governor, he would have told you to sit down and shut up a long time ago. But I still enjoy talking with you. Have a good Black Friday. 