But you have just changed the word forgiveness to the phrase “accepting us” which brings us right back around in a circle. Yes God accepts us, but that changes nothing because God accepting us was never the problem.
So you are claiming God does not care about evil? Or… is it you who doesn’t care about evil.
Evil and sin makes our existence into hell. Forgiveness and God accepting us doesn’t change this.
wrong! That is how we made ourselves.
For you maybe… but that just makes it a primitive science and psychology as the atheists constantly claim. No real reason to keep any of it.
agreed… that idea of bribery is not Christianity. Nor is heaven and hell rewards and punishment for good and bad behavior – that is a misunderstanding. The difference between heaven and hell revolves around a willingness to change and to accept God’s help in doing so. It is not bribery but simple logic. If you refuse to change then your sins will devour you, destroying everything of any good in you.
Christianity is about belonging to the Kingdom of God, which will have no end. That makes it about more than just this life, though we are to live as members of the Kingdom in this life. It is about eternal life impinging on mortal life and changing us.
Whilst you may say that, the bible very specifically defines sin as “transgression of the law”
If you read the story of the Israelites under Moses leadership, he regularly earbashed their disobedience.
I find it rather hard to consider you believe that there is no direct correlation between transgression and disobedience.
I have to ask at this point…do you have any kids of your own? Cause if you did, i very much doubt that your position here applies to your own habits is raising children…where disobedience and trangression are synonomus.
(I mean no disrespect, but as a parent, you could not possibly make that conclusion)
I raised three boys. Obedience plays a role, but it is a stepping stone (useful only during a certain age) between guarding their safety yourself and getting them to take care of themselves. Before this you cannot expect them to even understand any rules you give them. And after this you need to engage their reason so they can work out for themselves what is good and what should be avoided. This is crucial because no set of rules can guide them in all situations.
Those who exaggerate the role of obedience are highly suspect of wanting to keep people in the ignorance and naivety of a toddler – perfect for those using religion as a tool of power over other people.
We see a similar transition in God’s work to raise up the Israelites in the Bible. In early stages it was indeed all about obedience to a set of laws. The teachings of Jesus show how this had begun to change to one of reason and understanding to where Jesus explains that love of God and our fellow man is reason and essence of the law. And already with Jesus and expanded upon by Paul we are shown how law and obedience even gets in the way. This is a lesson which has been reinforced by later events in history with Nazi Germany showing us how obedience can be a tool for great evil.
But the lesson here is that sin is not about obedience to a set of rules at all. Jesus saw how the lawyers and legalists made the law into their own personal tool twisting to serve themselves. The law was only intended to help.
Or as I observed in several different congregations, never got past that level of morality themselves.
The prophets do so first, often with explanations of why following some certain instruction was good. Jesus’s teaching assumes that the prophets’ emphasis on principles over rules is correct.