That’s part of the con game. It is rather easy to show how their models are wrong. For example:
Whether dark matter is correct or not has nothing to do with the false science being presented by the website you linked.
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I don’t find this kind of dismissal helpful. It reminds me of the dismissal of Kaluza-Klein theory when they proposed it. Not so crackpot crazy anymore, is it?
Furthermore I don’t see where you are getting the electric universe accusation from… OH I get it, this is a derogative label for plasma cosmology. Talk about rhetoric… name calling is the worst.
I am dismissive of creationism because the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. But while the evidence of some things in cosmology is extensive the evidence for other things are rather scarce and on shaky ground. Certainly “dark matter” and “dark energy” are synonyms for “we don’t know what is going on out there, because our proven theories are not working.” Like most physicists I really want string theory to work. It is a really attractive idea. My guess is that we are missing an important piece of the puzzle still.
The criticisms of “orthodox” cosmology are valid. I am not seeing greater merit in the proposed alternatives here… BUT nowhere near as much money and effort has been spent to explore these alternatives compared to things like dark matter, string theory, and inflation. So… the criticism does sound a tiny bit hollow to me for that reason.
If you dive down the PC/EU rabbit hole you will discover what I am talking about. It’s up there with Flat Earth.
Electric Universe tries to claim that the Sun isn’t fueled by fusion but is instead electrically powered plasma. They also claim that electromagnetism is responsible for many of the basic movements of solar systems and galaxies. Plasma cosmology tries to claim that universal redshift is actually caused by plasma absorbing and emitting light as a longer wavelength. The problem is that plasma redshift is wavelength dependent (shorter wavelengths are shifted more than longer wavelengths) while the observed redshift is wavelength independent (all wavelengths are shifted by the same amount). These are just a few tidbits of the long list of PC/EU claims that are flat out wrong. This isn’t picking at the edges of scientific knowledge, but a denial of the most basic knowledge within physics. It pulls people in the same way Flat Earth pulls people in.
Yes, that is ridiculous – quite wrong. But where is that on the website? I couldn’t even find the term “electric universe” there. Nor could I find anything like that in the Wikipedia article on Plasma Cosmology. Could it be that a wide range of ideas are simply being lumped together like all the evangelical Christians getting lumped together with the creationists?
And if I say that the Earth is flat in some some sense related to General Relativity (surface being orthogonal to the space-time curvature) or I say that Ptolemy remains a correct representation of the motion of planets in the sky, then will I get lumped in with flat earthers and geocentrists?
Oh, he’s learning plenty but not what you had in mind.
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There’s a youtube video on plasma cosmology on the home page. The site is run by Ben Davidson, a well known proponent of EU/PC.
Here you go:
Not even close to the same thing.
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Yes I was watching that and didn’t see/hear anything like you claimed.
Yes and Jehovah Witness quote the Bible… does that mean the Bible is a Watchtower publication? Just because somebody uses something or writes something doesn’t mean that what they use or write is actually supporting everything they have ever said. The most you can say is that you need to check everything posted carefully because that person has been known for saying things which are wrong.
Ok I also agree with you on their claims regarding redshift and their opposition to the Big Bang – I would include those in the category of things with extensive evidence. When multiple lines of inquiry get you increasingly accurate estimates of the age of the universe, then I would call that a done deal.
I was asking you to substantiate your claim that they say the sun isn’t fueled by fusion. This website you linked isn’t looking too good… BUT… it is not the same site.
So… hmmm… on the one hand we want to avoid falling for the poison well fallacy, on the other hand we also don’t want to be led down the garden path by people who are just making a better cover presentation.
Ya whatever. Now back to the subject at hand.
solar physics is pretty well understood. The Suns magnetic field oscillates about every 11 years in the solar cycle this magnetic pole flip results in the ebbing and strengthening of mag field which is related to solar flaring sunspots and corona holes that causes variation in the solar radiation. The plasma corona likewise the solar wind composed of these charged plasma particles impacts the earths magnetic field effecting ionosphere as well as altering cosmic radiation penetrating the earth from space as well as often creating Aurora’s.
The earths magnetic field is weakening and the poles are moving the South Atlantic anamoly is spreading this will make earth more susceptible to solar flaring and cosmic radiation effects. The cosmic radiation effects will increase as the solar wind abates into the upcoming grand solar minimum and the earths magnetic field weakens. We are already starting to see unusual electric events such as the longest lightening bolt recorded and we will start to see more unusual electric activity such as sprites elves green ghosts and Aurora’s at increasing lower latitudes.
Seems to be an issue of different time scales…
11 year Solar cycle
100 year Milankovitch cycle
1,000,000 year magnetc poles flipping.
4 billion year conversion of CO2 atmosphere into O2 storing the carbon in fossil fuels until human beings burn up all those fossil fuels putting the carbon back into the atmosphere along with some new greenhouse gases of our own invention. Is that the beginning of a new cycle? LOL
So what? This is all perfectly normal.
Well if you mean it’s cyclical yes that’s normal. We see magnetic excursions roughly every 12000 years (somewhat related to earths precession) or so and are associated with weakening earths magnetic field pole movement electrical Anomalies, climate change geolical events and often extinctions.
Have a look at suspiciousobservers.org energies from space video that explains this. With earths weakening field a direct impact from an x10 soar flare could have disasterous effects on our electric grid which could wipe out civilization as we know it.
Huh? “Civilization as we know it” is not that dependent on our current electric grid… as if we couldn’t rebuild and replace it.
No one said the science is simple.
O yes. The science is settled…because we don’t believe in unsettled science:) and also
We believe in science …as long as it supports our point of view.
There are many cycles. We don’t understand a lot of them. The 11 year solar cycle seems to be related to Jupiter’s 11 year orbit about the sun.
We really don’t understand earths field fluctuations well. There are flips that seem to happen every 300000-400000 years but the last flip is recorded about 780k years ago. Magnetic Excursions are not full flips but movement and weakening of poles even the formation of multiple poles that really mess up earths electric circuit.
Grand solar minimums seem to occur in cycles also but usually about every 200-400 so we are due for one. There are many recorded minima
The milankovich cycle is composed of 3 different cycles of earths 100k year orbit about the sun, 41k year obliquity and 26 k yearsaxial precession all that combine to be associated with cooling glaciation and interglacial.
Then there CO2 and anthropogenic forcing. Well as said the ipcc has their models which they will next update with cmip6 soon.
Then there is volcanic activity
Then there is variations in the ocean currents
Then there is cloud effects
Then there are solar variations and solar forcing
Then there is electric variations due to solar energy
Then there are cosmic radiation effects including btw on ozone
Any way what exactly about this is settled?
I already know the real science. Nothing will affect civilization significantly until the next glacial maximum in OOM 10ky. Fission should see us through that.
I hope that you are right. Civilizations rise and fall. But ya we face many challenges from within like destroying the planet overpopulation AI and from without with solar events including micronova.
None of which are going to happen. None. Meaninglessly small probabilities. We need to address reality.
The climate is changing, the sun is changing earths magnetic field is changing and the geological records says it has happened many times n the past.
Correct. So there’s nothing at all to be alarmist about.
They have models wwhich demonstrate the vast majority of warming is due to human activity.
https://archive.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-4-1-2.html
The top graph in orange is all forcings, including human activity. The colored regions are the predictions of the model and the black is the observed temperatures across that span. You will notice that observations match the model. The bottom blue graph is all forcings except for the CO2 released by humans. As you can see, temperature does not follow this model. This is the science supporting human influence in recent warming.
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