Science and Faith

I am sorry but that is pure speculation. There is no possible evidence for or against it.

Is enough for the weather, but not creation. Creation is a unique event that precedes all others. Cretion provides God’s guidance in its completion. Getting there is another matter entirely.

That is not what I meant, and neither is it true. Ecology tempers evolution (along with survival) it does not guide it. Within Evolutionary theory (excluding God) there is no way to guide, build or construct piece by piece. Random means random. It does not mean guided.

I wish it was that simple.

Richard

Random means random – in science. Science has no way of testing for guidance (no, we are not talking about cruise missiles or a doe and her fawns). So you are correct with respect to science. (Did I really just say that?! :grin:)

Christians, or most, I hope, believe in God’s providence, and maybe better yet have experienced it personally, never again to question or deny God’s sovereignty and guidance over circumstances, the timing and placing of people and events, not that they will never ask “Why?”

1 Like

Why? What facts are you basing this on?

I don’t reject the idea that God could exist, and I don’t reject the possibility that God could be necessary.

Exactly. The best science can do is say “It is indistinguishable from true randomness”. In the case of random mutations, science can only say that there is no statistical correlation between what the organism needs and the mutations it gets. IOW, guidance, if it exists, is indistinguishable from the null hypothesis.

3 Likes

Not all events. Only those to which He was invited.

Richard

That is badly mistaken!

I’m glad he providentially intervenes in my life when I don’t consciously invite him! (Although he knows he has a standing invitation.)

There are plenty of others who will express their gratitude for his uninvited interventions, however! Phil Yancey first comes to mind, but then so does Rich Stearns, who did not want the interventions, plural.

And maybe you’ve heard of “The Hound of Heaven”?

1 Like

How does ecological evolution work? It works because all organisms are different. There differences enable them to live in different ecological niches. At one time the dinosaurs were best fitted to live in the dominant ecology of earth, which they did verry well.

But then the ecology changed and the dinosaurs had to change or die out. The avian (bird) dinosaurs did and survived as birds. Mammals had to change also because many species died out, but they had some advantages so they were more successful in adapting…

Change takes place when organisms use their mutations to adapt to their environment.
Failure to change leads to extinction.

Humans have the advantage in that to large extent we can control our ecology, but it is not easy. It is much easier ti fight our wars against each other than to work together to help each other…

“While life forms have evolved, Darwin’s Theory has not and so it is out of date.”

That is out of date, because it has evolved and a big reason I accept the science of evolution. Maybe you are not aware of genetics (we won’t mention population genetics, except that I just did ; - ) and especially neutral drift and the neutral theory of evolution.

1 Like

" The only rational answer to the question is GOD. " The only rational answer is “I don’t know”.

1 Like

That God and faith are intangible and cannot be measured is a feature of science. By itself, your statement is a claim, not a fact. So what if they can’t be measured - that doesn’t mean they do or don’t exist.

Upon what evidence do you claim that God does not want to be found? Seems odd given the trillions of words devoted to his existence.

1 Like

1 - Believe me, I’m no biblical scholar, but I’ve never seen it claimed that the flood was regional. YEC types are all over themselves trying to prove that the entire earth was covered in water, not a regional event.

2 - No, no, no. Rising from the dead is not an “exception to the normal”. It is IMPOSSIBLE. It is no more likely than you proving that 2+2=5. You make it sound like a statistical anomaly that skews the data and should be rejected.

3 - So the talking snake is not real, just a symbol of something. That makes more sense to me, but to my limited theological knowledge, the Bible claims the snake talked.

4- “there is no evidence that the birth process was unusual in any way.” It produced one of the divine trilogy without intercourse. That seems pretty ■■■■ unusual to me.

God is a God of faith. if He is found that will no longer be so.

If he was visible there would be no doubt about His existence we would have to either accept or reject Him with direct consequences. As it is we can decide he does not exist without consequence.

I am sorry, I do not have the time now to expand on this. I have to go to work.

Richard

I would not say he does not want to be found exactly…

Truly, you are a God who hides himself, O God of Israel, the Savior.
Isaiah 45:15

How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
Romans 11:33

He is absolutely worth finding though.

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
 
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.
 
Matthew 13:44-46

And he is findable.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
Hebrews 11:6

Or you can be found of him.

During a dark time in her life, a woman in my congregation complained that she had prayed over and over, “God, help me find you,” but had gotten nowhere. A Christian friend suggested to her that she might change her prayer to, “God, come and find me. After all, you are the Good Shepherd who goes looking for the lost sheep.” She concluded when she was recounting this to me, “The only reason I can tell you this story is – he did.”

Tim Keller, The Reason for God, p.240

(I’m looking forward to knowing the rest of that story. ; - )

There are different kinds of finding and they are not all physical. God is absolutely findable.
 

“God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.”
Acts 17:27

You can take it up with the Apostle Paul later. :grin:

1 Like

What we believe does affect how we understand what we see.
Craig Keener, Miracles Today

“‘…they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Luke 16:21

With your presuppositions and in a little thought experiment, even if someone actually did rise from the dead, would you not say something to the effect of “He wasn’t really dead!” or “There must be some other explanation, I don’t know what it is, but there has to be!”?

1 Like

@Dale you get the wrong end of the stick every time. I can’t decide whether it is because it is me or not. I can tell you it has become tiresome.

Perhaps I should put you on ignore.

Richard

There are two basic components to Darwin’s theory, the genetic component which has evolved and the Survival of the Fittest component which has not. You do not have a viable theory without both components, and the Survival component has not evolved because evolution is not based on competition. Thus the theory as a whole is not true, which is why it is necessary to fix the Survival component…

Since when is ignorance a rational answer. The only way that this could be a rational answer if we know that GOD is not real.

But not provable. He is always, ultimately, still a God of faith.

I will admit that my comments assume a physical identity.

If God was in the sky like the moon He would have 2 basic choices

  1. Dominate with consequences for not doing so removing all freedom

  2. Keep His peace and therefore be benign and ignored

Instead we can believe in Him or not as a choice with no consequences either way. (If there are consequences for not believing it would not be a free choice but a coerced one)

So in that sense He does not want to be found (as in visible to all)

Richard

I guess. He would have a hard time making himself physical (apart from the incarnation of Jesus, of course).

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

It’s going to astound millions and win you a Nobel that you figured that out by yourself.

You’ve heard of ‘natural selection’, I suspect, so to help you fit it to your idiosyncratic glossary, you might think of it as the evolution of ‘the Survival of the Fittest component’, if that would be acceptable to you.