And yet all I am given is the conclusion, not the evidence.
If you have to be convinced that species who spend time in trees tend to jump from branch to branch and even tree to tree then the problem isn’t with us. The problem lies with your abject ignorance of those species.
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You clearly have no idea what my objection is. And I am tired of trying to tel you.
Richard
Then perhaps you’d be kind enough to humour us one last time. Lay them out as numbered lists or bullet points as clearly and succinctly as you can.
In your view, what are the five (currently) insurmountable problems with the theory of evolution?
Genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say.
It stems from the first
It is random (So not under the control of God)
All other criticisms stem from this fact. Meaning that
- it cannot have foresight to build complex systems (And probability is against finding them)
- It cannot build interdependent systems (Ecology)
- it cannot just change from one system to another (eg endothermic and ectothermic)
- It cannot just invent a feather without precencept of flight
- Humanity is supposed to be God’s ultimate creation not the pinacle of random deviation
The last one is pure theology and flies against Darwin (et al)
1-5 assume no guidance from God, because evolution, as it stands, does not allow for guidance from God. (and we all know why)
Therefore if you are going to claim Theistic Evolution (as opposed to the current version) there must be a mechanism for God to control it. rather than some vague providential notion that he knew it would happen.
I hope this is clear enough
The caveat is that, as I cannot argue God with a scientist. I have to argue science, which throws up all the claims about “not knowing what I am talking about” (whether I do, or claim to, or not) The purpose of a feather is subject to opinion.not conjecture.
Richard
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So is ‘luck’, right? Something that God is not sovereign over? Maybe your concept of God is too small.
Thanks for these, Richard, I’ll give them some thought.
A quick (non-pedantic) point of order, God’s knowledge of a event in advance is his foreknowledge, God’s activity in and through an event is his providence.
For example, God saying to Jeremiah “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you” (Jeremiah 1:5) is a reference to his foreknowledge.
But when Joespeh says, “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Gen 50:20), he’s talking about God’s providence.
Using the correct terms is helpful for ensuring against misunderstandings.
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That’s an important distinction, and Joseph is a great example of the latter. God’s providences can be difficult (how long was Joseph in prison?). But good always comes from it!
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Richard, you are right on the money. The fact is that that there us a mechanism that controls or guides evolution and it is called ecology, most notably in the form of climate change. Sadly, the mechanism which Darwin proposed to provide guidance for evolution, Survival of the fittest, does not because it is an unscientific myth that sounds good, but is false.
Evidence of GOD’s guidance is that the universe is rational, while random chance is not. Random chance is part of the mechanism of evolution, but change is rationally guided so it is rational. GOD does not have to guide directly to guide.
The purpose of feathers originally was to provide warmth. The are excellent insulators. The avian dinosaurs are examples of how organisms evolved by adapting to the environment.
This is a much better response. Thank you.
Yet you know the evidence. Before time the universe was not. From whence did it come? We know that it did not come from itself. We know that it did not come from us, although some people will always suggest this. The only rational answer to the question is GOD. This is not a claim, but rational conclusion, based on the facts as we know them.
The main problem is that some people have rejected the idea that GOD is real from the git go, therefore they cannot accept what they believe to be an imaginary being could be the necessary Being. .
I am sorry but that is pure speculation. There is no possible evidence for or against it.
Is enough for the weather, but not creation. Creation is a unique event that precedes all others. Cretion provides God’s guidance in its completion. Getting there is another matter entirely.
That is not what I meant, and neither is it true. Ecology tempers evolution (along with survival) it does not guide it. Within Evolutionary theory (excluding God) there is no way to guide, build or construct piece by piece. Random means random. It does not mean guided.
I wish it was that simple.
Richard
Random means random – in science. Science has no way of testing for guidance (no, we are not talking about cruise missiles or a doe and her fawns). So you are correct with respect to science. (Did I really just say that?! 
)
Christians, or most, I hope, believe in God’s providence, and maybe better yet have experienced it personally, never again to question or deny God’s sovereignty and guidance over circumstances, the timing and placing of people and events, not that they will never ask “Why?”
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Why? What facts are you basing this on?
I don’t reject the idea that God could exist, and I don’t reject the possibility that God could be necessary.
Exactly. The best science can do is say “It is indistinguishable from true randomness”. In the case of random mutations, science can only say that there is no statistical correlation between what the organism needs and the mutations it gets. IOW, guidance, if it exists, is indistinguishable from the null hypothesis.
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Not all events. Only those to which He was invited.
Richard
That is badly mistaken!
I’m glad he providentially intervenes in my life when I don’t consciously invite him! (Although he knows he has a standing invitation.)
There are plenty of others who will express their gratitude for his uninvited interventions, however! Phil Yancey first comes to mind, but then so does Rich Stearns, who did not want the interventions, plural.
And maybe you’ve heard of “The Hound of Heaven”?
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How does ecological evolution work? It works because all organisms are different. There differences enable them to live in different ecological niches. At one time the dinosaurs were best fitted to live in the dominant ecology of earth, which they did verry well.
But then the ecology changed and the dinosaurs had to change or die out. The avian (bird) dinosaurs did and survived as birds. Mammals had to change also because many species died out, but they had some advantages so they were more successful in adapting…
Change takes place when organisms use their mutations to adapt to their environment.
Failure to change leads to extinction.
Humans have the advantage in that to large extent we can control our ecology, but it is not easy. It is much easier ti fight our wars against each other than to work together to help each other…
“While life forms have evolved, Darwin’s Theory has not and so it is out of date.”
That is out of date, because it has evolved and a big reason I accept the science of evolution. Maybe you are not aware of genetics (we won’t mention population genetics, except that I just did ; - ) and especially neutral drift and the neutral theory of evolution.
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" The only rational answer to the question is GOD. " The only rational answer is “I don’t know”.
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That God and faith are intangible and cannot be measured is a feature of science. By itself, your statement is a claim, not a fact. So what if they can’t be measured - that doesn’t mean they do or don’t exist.
Upon what evidence do you claim that God does not want to be found? Seems odd given the trillions of words devoted to his existence.
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