Faith is works and belief. If you truly believe something then your works will support it. If you believe something, but don’t love it then it’s useless. Jesus did say “ I never knew you evil doer”.
The problem is that many people who sin differently than another is often treated differently. Or someone who sins less or on a more socially acceptable way will think they are more deserving of salvation. That’s work righteousness.
The battle is not between all belief and zero works or zero belief and all works. It’s about faith in Christ and the mercy and grace we get from God because of it and how that love helps transforms us into better snd bette people who pursues his truth and righteousness. It’s not about knowing everything it being perfect. But it’s also not about living in sin and never seeking his wisdom.
Sez you.
Don’t confuse “works” and “fruit”.
“Works” are the things that we do expecting to be rewarded for them. “Fruit” is the result of trust.
Jeremiah 17:7-8.
“Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord And whose trust is the Lord.
“For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream
And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit."
I’ll try to remember that distinction. Even though I partly believe it’s semantics, I think it will help cut through the issues surrounding the word works nowadays when talking with others.
No its not the latter.Couldnt care less to be restored here and change.Heaven is the goal not here.I cant really understand people like you who emphasize on “this life” rather than the next.So is your goal to be transformed here in this world? If so you wouldnt mind then going to hell in the next ?
If you read the book of Revelation the future is “a new heaven’s and new earth” and Paul is quite clear we have new resurrection bodies., it is not simply being saved to heaven.
Ive listened to the podcast but can’t recall it to well. It’s still on the back burner of what I’m studying but I’m getting closer to studying it snd developing a real opinion on it.
These are the resources I’ll be using.
On that link you’ll find a YouTube video.
You’ll find a series on heaven and earth.
You’ll also find a fairly in-depth Bible study on this subject.
Another resource is Surprised by Hope by NT Wright.
I intentionally left off some things in my previous response that was focused more on about after we are saved .
Leading up to salvation I think it’s a two persons work. It’s the one wanting to be saved /man’s God.
I think maybe just me and 1-2 others in here share this belief. So I tend to leave it off. I think there is just one path to salvation and that’s through Christ and there is just one path to Christ and that’s to love him including doing what he teaches.
The first thing is that someone must hear the gospels.
The person who hears it has to choose to believe it. The person who believes it must then do three things. They must begin repentance of sins. They must confess Christ. They must be baptized into Christ by being fully submerged in water. Then they must continue to live a godly life.
It’s supposed to say life. My phone just messed up much I’m border line to hold it in my hand and punch it until I break something to be honest.
Thankfully come July I’m 100% out of Covid restrictions regardless of the circumstances short of a freak new strain outbreak and will be back in a kickboxing club gym and will be able to work out my aggression with a battle buddy. Especially since they are a far better fighter in every way. Definitely a better boxer and kicker.
Going to have to find out how to carry over all my pictures abd messages without carrying over whatever is causing all the bad and and completely wrong “auto miscorrects”
I won’t dispute that the term can be used in a manner that covers more than what I said it covers, but let me ask you: Would you have started a thread entitled “Salvation: Faith or works?”
Read the OP again.
Individual X “believes in God” and is an unrepentant sinner. Sound like someone we’ve heard of? “Satan” comes to my mind. [Biologos’ resident “universal salvationist” says: “Satan who?”]
Individual Y is “moral” by the highest standards and doesn’t acknowledge (i.e. believe in/have faith in/trust) God. Y does works, but doesn’t have faith: a “rare bird”, IMO; the kind who puts me to shame.
Given X and Y, who gets saved? Is that a conundrum that you would have raised in a new thread? Not me.