Race as a real thing or as a social construct

What was difficult here? I’m fairly proficient in English - and I believe you are too. So I explained to you how I accept what I believe to be an evolving use of that word - culturally updated to take scientific facts into account too. I think I understand you. Have you found it difficult to understand me?

If you continue to use the word because that’s how it’s been used in the past, I won’t hold it against you. Especially if your friends, whom you might characterize as being different races also don’t mind and accept that usage - who am I to judge what’s between you and them? It sounds like your heart’s in the right place.

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Yea, I find it difficult to communicate with a person who reads “human race” when I write “race.”

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

Ah - sorry. I presumed we were limiting our discussion to humans here. If you had non-human races in mind also, then perhaps I haven’t understood everything you’re getting at.

I am not in favor of revising the dictionary every few years.

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I’ve got some bad new for you on that front. Languages evolve. And despite the best efforts of English teachers everywhere, nobody can stop it.

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I was writing about humans.

I have no idea why you thought otherwise

Okay - so I think we’re good then. That wasn’t so hard.

I know languages involve, but race still means race, not human race. I hope that is not bad news to you.

I am only here for serious discussion, not counting coup.

Well - I guess that still confuses me about your usage then. So - are you saying there is no such thing as “the human race”?

I take it that you are only objecting to the ‘the’ - as you are saying there are many human races? If so, I think our only disagreement is about that, then. I see one human race - and you see many. I’m satisfied to leave it at that.

Thabiti Anyabwile debated Douglas Wilson several years ago about Wilson’s views on southern slavery. As much as they disagreed in the end, they could still unashamedly agree on this, and I thought it was pretty neat:

“Mankind is one in Adam, which means we share a common humanity, and a common slavery to sin. We together believe that mankind cannot come together in a true unity until they do so in the second Adam, the only one who is capable of overcoming the sorts of things that divide us.”

There were a few more points of agreement, but that’s the one that stood out.

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Language is imperfect.

Ask your neighbors.

They know that the term “the human race” refers to all humans, and there are three races that compose the human race: black, white, and Asian. And some people are mixtures.

When I was in elementary school back in the early 1960s, that was in our text books, except back then the term “Mongolian” was in the text book other than Asian. Language changes.

In the times of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, the term “colored” (as in NAACP) was accepted and common and polite. Now it is an anathema.

Language does change.

Recognition of the three races is not sinful. It is simply a fact.

Yeah, ethnicity is probably inadequate; Circassian and Bulgarian are both ethnicities yet they are also White, so I definitely see your point here.

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Except of course at different times there were different arrangements. For instance 6 races (black (sub-Saharan Africa), white (Europe/Middle East), dusky (South Asian), orange (Malay), yellow (East Asian), red (Native American)) under one early classification. Also the there is greater genetic diversity in “Black” than all the other “races” put together. Are South Asians (Indians) the same race as East Asians (Japanese/Chinese/Korean) and Malay? Or are South Asian considered White? What about Pacific islanders or the Aborigines of Australia?

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Says who? And is it ALL humans? Take Asian race for example, who exactly is Asian? South East Asians, Arabs, Indians and inhabitants of huge swathes of Russia all look drastically different, they can’t all possibly be same race. And what do you do with North Africans? They’re not considered White, but definitely aren’t Black or Asian, or even mixture. I could go on. The point is, whether you want to use term race or not, this classification is outdated, White centered and inadequate.

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I’m trying to remember what current surveys would refer to this as … I guess it’s been a little while since I’ve taken one; I’d be a little surprised if they still used the word ‘race’ in the blank where you’re supposed to check whether you’re ‘hispanic’ or ‘caucasian’ etc. But I don’t remember if it’s often referred to as ‘ethnicity’ either. Professional survey distributors ought to be on top of such word usages I should think. Maybe others here can take note if they have some recent survey handy.

I actually did some consumer survey just to see what it would ask, as I couldn’t remember. Unfortunately it didn’t ask for my ethnicity/race/whatever lol

Did a quick search, and I think this article is very relevant to this thread (it isn’t long and gets straight to the point)

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I get requests for surveys often. I will watch an observe what I am asked.

I do recall that I frequently have to choose between White—Not Latino and White—Latino

And I do recall a grouping of Asian/Pacific Islander

Ethnicity can also provide helpful medical information. For example, a Jewish couple of Eastern European origin might be wise to consider genetic counseling for Tay-Sachs disease.

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Looks like the U.S. Census Bureau went with ‘race’ on at least one question!

Thanks, Terry.

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