Question about the Book of Revelation

[adamjedgar (adam james edgar)]

@Mervin_Bitikofer

Well-stated! If the choice is between recognizing (or at least allowing for) some elasticity of interpretation / application or imposing a brittle and calcified (for all time) meaning, the latter does not seem to me like any kind of way to honor a living text. Nor does it (the latter way) appear to be the way that Christ or the early church apostles interacted with the text.

That said, it still seems to me that there are ways of handling the text that can (or should be) ruled out for all time. Such as abusing the text to contort it into the service of power and domination of some over others.

For me, in this matter - I’m finding my basis for trust to be more in people than in sets of texts / systematic theologies. I.e. I attend to some people (whether past or present) more than others just because of what I have seen in their character, and the entire body of things they’ve already pubicly committed to, and more importantly: lived out. Once that is established, it takes a lot for me to break off that trust. I’m willing to give them considerable benefit of the doubt when they say disagreeable things, and to wrestle with what they’ve said - searching for any new understandings or ‘elasticity’ of meaning if you will. So my world-view has become more Person-based than systematic theology-based.

Mervin,

i do agree that we shall know individuals by their fruits…

Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

And we know from the New Testament historical account that Christ said to Peter in a moment of frustration…

Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

However, if the Old Testament serves as an example to the New, how do we in the modern age reconcile the above with the following:

Psalms 146:3. “Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man who cannot bring salvation”. :4. “His spirit goes out , he returns to the ground, On that very day his thoughts perish”

Psalms 118: 8, 9:

“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.”

Jer 17:5-8 ESV

5 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.

6 He is like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see any good come. He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness, in an uninhabited salt land.

7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD.

Which do we really need to place our faith and trust in?

My thought is that you are suggesting that its both of the above in that we can judge the authenticity of another individuals lead by the way in which they “live their life” (so to speak).

I would like to offer my concern that my understanding of your conclusion above would then leave an individual become open to trickery?
Outwardly there are many individuals in the media for example, who are con artists that have historically convinced even those very close to themselves that they are very decent people…its only after the lie is exposed the true nature is observed and the associated con unravels.

Would you agree that the disciple Judas Iscariot is an example demonstrating how my summary of your conclusion fails?

I would suggest another example is WACO Texas (a former SDA member who lead a group of individuals into a terrible con and many lost their lives believing that evil mans trickery). Outwardly he seemed to be a genuine man of God. inwardly, he was anything but that.

ps I used the WACO example specifically because i don’t take prisoners even within my own organisation. Ive made mistakes (actually bad choices, not mistakes) in the past, and still do regularly, for which I’m not proud of…evil is not denominational.