I have a great question. How exactly was sin itself(Satan) allowed into the garden in the first place?
It’s interesting question, there are a couple of explanations, one is that Angels were as free as humans to do what they wish and they were supposed to maintain order, one of them rebelled and decided to tempt the humans to reject God. I don’t think Satan is sin itself or that he was created to be Evil, I am not completely sure though what similarity we have with Angels.
Another very insightful explanation is that there was no Satan at all, the serpent represented Eve mind that decided to go against God, this theory is quite well described in Biologos article, one may challenge this interpretation though as it still leaves some empty space like what does “destroying serpents head” mean, but I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker.
I personally very like the second theory as I agree that humans weren’t less stupid before they ate the apple and couldn’t see what is evil but instead they left to God the decision what is best for them and eating the apple is symbolism of them deciding for themselves what is good or bad.
And to you? Which theory seems more likely or what makes both of these theories nonsense?
Yeah how was he allowed to the garden?Still didnt answer my question
No small child in their right mind disobeys their parents like that out of nowhere.My mom told me when i was young that going into the street which has cars would result to me dying.No sugarcoating.Same here with this story.
And if Satan isnt sin did sin existed before Satan?And if it did why didnt God destroyed it?
They were as free as humans, there probably were laws they had like us but they always could choose to ignore it, and Satan did.
First point: We don’t see how long it took for them to make their minds.
Second point: Adam and Eve weren’t children but adults and they knew what there were doing
Third point: Small child(if he is old enough to think for himself that is) disagrees with their parents all the time, it’s just that they are forced to obey parents as they are small and weak so if parent wants them to do something they can’t say no (at least for long), and if they don’t see any gain in doing something they parents told them not to do they won’t have a reason to do otherwise, there’s no real incentive into running through a scary road yourself if parents said to you that you shouldn’t, but if it’s about playing your favourite game 15 minutes longer a lot of kids will gladly try whatever they can to make it last, even if by lying.
To me sin is just a free willed person choosing to do something selfish instead of doing something good, how could God destroy it without destroying our free will?
Doesnt make sense.God then by your own words created sin with free will together then.Sin its a power then .If God cant destroy it what prevents us from not sinning when the second coming will happen and all will be good in heaven?
Divine hiddenness is one of the problems being addressed here.
No, he didn’t. Jesus is (allegedly) still alive.
Is there any evidence that God did that? It seems to be more of a faith based proposition.
The father in the parable was not hiding from the son.
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I think what is important to remember was that God created a good world, not a perfect one. In fact, the story implies that there was still death in this pre-fallen world; Ben Stanhope has an interesting video on this.
Please explain to me how I could possibly drive any anti-theist away from any Christian church? What is an anti-theist doing in a Christian church: preaching, singing, or holding doors open?
Do you really think I should be compassionate to someone who mocks God, just because they think God should be “a perfect ‘fairy godmother’” or “a genie in their pocket”? I don’t.
So let’s suppose that you are that “teen Christian” who has “hit rock bottom in life,” blames God “for all the misfortunes” that he has had in life, grows up hating God, and doesn’t repent, like the kid in your OP. You ask: “Will you end up in heaven?” and I ask: “Why would you want to?” To brag to God face to face that you were right in this world and to ask for a second chance: to live in better world?
One thing I am certain of: no one in this forum has any words for you that will comfort you. And that’s all this forum has to offer you: words, … and a place for you to vent your spleen.
It’s sad that with all those arguments which other people tuned in as well to engage in this conversation you think I’m mad at God because he didn’t do what I asked as if I’m that stupid or childish to know that this is a fairytale kind of thinking. You really diminish my intelligence here. Also your tongue is very rude to speak like that. Be respectful and learn some manners . I understand you get angry when we mock God ,but hey we have our reasons.
That quote was never about me really. Although some aspects can be about me as well. I don’t blame God for my misfortunes that other people caused to me. I’m just sad he wasn’t there where I needed him like a good father would be. Hense all these questions about free will and the problem of evil. You have really missunderstood me. But I couldn’t care less to be honest
Why would I want to end up to heaven? Ohh gee I don’t know because I behave like your god’s want to and not like a lot of his children do (like you) basically being a douche? Ohh would you look at that an atheist living like a Christian but god forbid he doesn’t repent . Get over yourself
There are people here who have comforted me before. @Mervin_Bitikofer did in his replies above to some extent. Maybe you should learn basic manners first and not attack so rudesly when someone ridiculles your God. Especially on the internet .
But I think your problem comes from insecurity . You don’t want your beliefs challenged. You don’t want anyone saying anything “negative” about your Heavenly Father. Because you know that deep inside you too have that doubt that says to you “he actually may be right”. That’s all I got to say
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Au contraire, … you’re angry because God didn’t make the world perfect, and its imperfections (which you think you’re an excellent judge of) allow pain and suffering which, if you were God, wouldn’t exist in a world that you made.
It’s impossible to diminish your intelligence over the internet unless you believe what I say, and you don’t. On the other hand, it is very possible for me to tell you that I don’t believe you are as intelligent as you want me to believe. There’s an important difference there.
Respect for humans is earned, even dogs know that.
You understand nothing. I’m not angry because you mock God; mock Him all you want, but don’t expect me to praise you for doing it in my presence. What annoys me is that you can’t stop yourself and forum policy discourages me from giving you an “ungracious” response.
No? Gee, you sure fooled me …
If you don’t blame God for your misfortunes, why ridicule Him?
Free will? What’s that? I don’t believe in it. You and I are what we are and we can’t change what we are; only God can.
Where? You’re confused.
You’re not an atheist; you’re an anti-theist. You need God to blame for allowing sin and suffering in your world. I don’t.
LOL! Nick Freud speaks, …
I bet that it ain’t. Prove me wrong. I’m done with you.
From my years of experience on atheist websites, I’d say probably juvenile mischief.
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Yes if God created us with free will he understood that there’s possibility of us rejecting him and sinning, but it was a cost worth paying.
What prevents us from sinning during second coming? Nothing really, there’s no magical spell that will stop us from sinning, but those who will trust God and let him shape them will decide that it’s best to cooperate and follow God’s path. It’s the same with God, really, he could abandon his rules but he doesn’t, he has his values according to which he acts and makes decisions. The same is with us, hopefully with help of God we will acquire understanding great enough that we will decide to follow and never betray our values.
This is how relationship works after all, it’s based on trust and cooperation, not on constrains and power.
What does he claim?
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I’m pretty sure he was wondering why there was a serpent in The Garden
Riiight. And that proves prelapsarian zoothanatology how?
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I understand that God being present is important in teaching us anything to you, that it’s unfair for him to demand our cooperation if we don’t even see him.
In the end this is where we disagree I think, Bible shows really well that God being visible doesn’t really change anything for humans, they will always find a way to justify their decisions and keep doing what they think is good. I think it also is visible from personal experience, if you hear some wisdom it doesn’t matter if you see the person that taught it, the same is with wisdom that you disagree with, even if the guy is present and explaining it to you, one will still disagree.
I think, even though it feels cruel to us sometimes and unfair, that we will surely act differently if he was here to tell us exactly what to do, God made a good decision to let us decide ourselves if we agree with him or not, after all, that’s all there is, if you understand what is Bible trying to teach you and accept it’s lessons, there’s not really anything else you need to reach salvation. At least in my view.
I have no idea what that means
Pre-Fall animal death.
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Hense God created evil. Finally a Christian understands what I was trying to say in some older threads about evil and God.
Sorry but an infinite being couldn’t find any other way? If God is beyond our understanding and “his ways are not ours” how can you put limitations on what he can do as you did claiming he couldn’t do it any other way?
To me this is a scapegoat to really mask how evil God can be sometimes. I mean he created it. So how can a good loving being create something so destructive and evil that makes us monsters such as sin? Either he has to be evil (at least on some part as well)or the sin must be preexisting hense making it a power equal to God.
At least you acknowledge that God created it