The idea that matter is not real is a philosophical argument, but using it to prove God exists would not seem to work if you are a Christian. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. So the earth is real to us Christians and to atheists trying to disprove God exists. I recently viewed the documentary “Against the Tide” in which Dr. Nathan debates with Richard Dawkins on the existence of God. In my opinion, the documentary glossed over the big issue, which is the problem with miracles. While you can cite the billion to one odds for our universe to exist if it did not expand at the precise rate that it did, an atheist like Dawkins will still suggest that we need our “Darwin” for cosmology - in other words the theory that explains it all without God.
The one big answer to Dawkins on miracles is in how the big bang occurred. The answer in my view rests with Quantum Physics, and based on empirical evidence from the double slit electron experience, it is clear that observation changes reality. Would the moon exist if someone did not observe it?, asked Einstein. Quantum Physics says NO. So this leads to the big question: Who observed the big bang? Obviously it was a non-local consciousness - i.e. God. But how can God control the outcome of billions of possibilities - based on the the uncertainty principle of quantum physics? In order for God to do this He must be present in all time, seeing all possible outcomes and observing the one per His will.
But a theory to be proven empirically, you need evidence. So the evidence that I put forth is the bible. How did the bible get the Creator God right before anyone could imagine quantum physics and the theory of relativity? This proof has been reinforced by my personal Faith and Trust in God. But at times I get tempted with doubt - you mean when I die I poof go to a heaven somewhere like in a sci-fi movie - really??? YEP! That’s just the way it is.
The proof is so blatantly obvious that only a wicked, unrepentant person would turn away from it.
ALL OF CREATION CRIES OUT THAT GOD IS.
His glory, knowledge, understanding, wisdom and power can been seen by what He has made.
It is an unbelieving and sinful heart that rejects the obvious.
Ahhh! But we are all sinners saved only by grace. So why me? Only because I chose to accept the gift. And so as you say the evidence for God is there but some do not have eyes that see because they do not want to abandon their will for God’s. When we finally “see” that our way can not work, that is when our hearts turn and we accept this gift of faith and salvation. But indeed it is possible for some to see and believe but still not accept God’s way over theirs, as is the case with Satan. But I for one will let God judge others on that one and presume they just don’t see it yet.
All will be well for all thanks to the fully functional faithfulness of Christ, not our weak work of enculturated faith.
“I don’t know” is a valid answer as well. Both a natural and supernatural origin of the universe would require evidence. We simply don’t default to supernatural origins if we don’t know how something came to be.
Quantum physics says YES. Observations don’t require humans or any intelligent being. In the double slit experiment, the photographic film on the other side of the double slits is the observer. The collapse of a wavefunction merely requires the interaction of particles.
Odds have nothing to do with it. Rationally there have always been universes, whether God grounds them or not.
But if, in the double slit experiment, no one looks at the photographic film and sees the electron particle’s position, it remains in the quantum state as a wave. An observer then must be a conscious mind.
Yes our universe exists. But the question is how did it come into existence? What is the rational answer to this question? A theory is that it was God by observation by the Holy Spirit guided by the Son per the will of the Father present in all times and places - a triune God. Evidence - how could the bible explain a quantum physics and relativity basis for creation thousands of years ago? Answer: It must be true.
Finally, what does “supernatural” mean? To God this is not supernatural but natural for Him. I am suggesting that the terms supernatural or metaphysics (not used in the bible) are irrelevant. It is all part of God’s ability to be sovereign in the universe. Trying to explain the universe without God as sovereign is like trying to explain how a jet can fly without a pilot - yes it can be on automatic pilot but who turns on the automatic pilot?
No it doesn’t. No it mustn’t.
There is no such theory. It came in to existence as universes do, as they always have [from a quantum perturbation in the ‘zero point energy field’ or the null], for eternity. Whether God is the ground of being or not. [And despite the Relativity of Simultaneity, and there being no absolute reality, there are no ‘B’ theory of time, block universe times for God to be present in. The present is in God.]
No, it doesn’t. The wave collapses once the photons hit the photographic film. There is no requirement for a conscious mind to collapse wavefunctions.
What about a cloud floating through the sky?
Ha! Good one!
Classical physics made cause and effect seem a plausible explanation for all events in the natural world. Then along came Planck and Einstein and changed physics forever.
It is demonstrable that this is obvious only to some people and not to others, so only unreasonable intolerant bigots would judge people on the basis of their cries that this is “obvious.” Jesus teaches in Matthew 7:2, 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. So by this judgement you make based on what you decide is “obvious” you subject yourself to the judgement of God based on what He decides is obvious. Good luck with that! I would not wish to be you.
By Jesus words, your judgment causes you to be judged an unbelieving and sinful heart because you reject that which is obvious to millions of Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists.
Quantum physics says no such thing.
That is completely unrelated philosophical inquiry and science strongly suggests that the answer to this is effectively yes for the simple reasons that everything effects everything else and so even when you don’t observe something directly you are in some sense observing it indirectly. Take the discovery of the planet Neptune and the double dwarf planet Pluto-Charon which were discovered by their effects on the planet Uranus.
To put in my 2 cents as a second physicist in order to clarify. When Quantum mechanics speaks of observation it is referring to measuring devices, and conscious observers can be demonstrated to be completely irrelevant to the result of these experiments upon which it is based.
To make a slight correction… it really takes interaction with LOTS of particles to do this – as happens in any measuring device. An interaction with just a few particles can just give you entanglement which is still in a superpostion of states.
Looking at the photographic film and you either see the interference pattern or you see the single spot and it is only the presence of the measuring device which determines which of these is on the film. Refusing to look at the film doesn’t change anything.
Ps 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
Rom 1:18-18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality. 12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Isaiah 1:11 “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of he-goats.
12 “When you come to appear before me, who requires of you this trampling of my courts?
13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes;
cease to do evil, 17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression;
defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Romans 10:5 Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on the law shall live by it. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
My original post was just a condensing of Romans 1. It was not my original thought or my judgment but God’s. It goes for all of mankind who turn away from the knowledge of God. Including myself if I dont love, trust and obey Him.
In which case your talk of something being obvious depends entirely on thinking anything in the Bible is worth reading let alone trustworthy, which is demonstrably not obvious to most people in the world. This again by the words of Jesus which you implicitly endorse, leaves you subject to the same judgement of others who think their own books are more trustworthy.