Predestination :

We have freedom of choice but within boundaries. God is love, just and righteous and is under no obligation to save anybody. We don’t know who is chosen or not chosen, our job is to share the gospel. Romans 9 is really the tough nut to crack especially the two boys before they did anything God chose one.

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As God [Love] is responsible for the infinity of everybody from eternity He is under every obligation to save everybody. [Only group think - herd mentality - can assent to the binding, complict fiction that Love does not love.]

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God as love is not under obligation to save someone who has no desire to be saved.

" Romans 9 is really the tough nut to crack especially the two boys before they did anything God chose one." @Paul_Allen1

Romans 9 is about Esau and Jacob, God’s plan of history, not eternal salvation. Esau and Jacob were both blessed, just Jacob was blessed more as the Father of Israel.

Love heals such aberration.

I don’t think God is obliged to save anybody as if we have some kind of right, but I also think that God is able and willing to save anyone who calls upon him.

Love is obliged.

Sometimes it does; and sometimes it doesn’t, … but never for lack of trying. The fact that sometimes it doesn’t disproves your blanket assertion. You underestimate the power of rebellion and the power of shame.

It is interesting that a hypothetical God who is by some rational presupposition incapable of lovingly intervening into finite space and time in individuals’ lives is by the same abstractions hypothetically capable enough to intervene in the ‘infinite beyond’ to lovingly cure even those who hate him and who do not want to be cured.

You underestimate the power of Love. Rebellion, whatever that is, and shame are not more powerful than God.

You opine regarding things you do not know and presume to correct me? Go arm-wrestle with someone else.

Your abject surrender, but not to Love, is noted. Don’t keep preaching damnation, God the Incompetent and I won’t slam your arm on the table. All in love of course…

So, you appear to believe that “rejection”, which–IMO–is a synonym for “a decision to not accept and include”, is equivalent to “damnation” and then you leap to the assumption that that implies God’s incompetence leading you to object to the damnation that you attribute to me? Methinks, thou dost protest too much. You slam nothing on the table but your own fist.

It would seem that you ignore, have forgotten, or are unaware of 1 Timothy 4:2:

Cpnsequently, you seem unwilling or incapable of recognizing and acknowledging that every “seared conscience” cannot be fixed, which must lead you–unavoidably and necessarily–to the conclusion that when, all the dust has settled, the Devil himself, “father of all lies”, will join all of the saved at the Great Feast someday instead of being dismantled and annihilated, becoming thereby a vanquished enemy and a fading memory.

Free men and women do not rebel and in spite of your wishful thinking, I say: not all Rebels can be dragged or loved into freedom. That is not evidence of God’s incompetence, no matter how much you try to pretend that it is.

Go and preach that “message of hope” to the Lord of Darkness or his minions. I reject your nonsense and affirm that, as long as you believe there is hope for the Devil himself, you and I have an irreconcilable difference of opinions between us which means that we’re done here. Find someone else to play with.

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I believe in Love. Something I’m obviously found wanting in, but I see it clearly in God in Christ’s faithfulness that predestines all to salvation.

I think your concept of God is merely a hypothetical and not clearly seen.

The whole idea of God is about intelligence that exists beyond the terrestrial space.

Love does not compel us to be some one we are not.

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Of course it does. What else possibly could? Being loved transforms everything. And if it can’t, love fixes that lack. Or do you imagine God will resurrect helplessly innocent psychopaths without the capacity for empathy?

Have to disagree.It actually does.Ive seen it with myself

This thread has wandered quite a bit from the OP, and since it’s been kind of a hot-button topic anyway, I’ve put a timer on it – you can finish a discussion if you’re in the middle of it, but otherwise please start a new topic for spin-off ideas.

God is just. That means he is fair. Regarding those who hate him, he will not force them to become something they in their free will do not want to become. They will get back on the bus because heaven is too substantial and the grass will hurt their feet.

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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