Prayer - Does It Work? How Can We Know?

When you replace Christ with those others what you get is the opposite of what I said. You get the things they can’t say and so.

If only this worked for Baal worshippers. Christian apologists would save their lives.

Same with Him. Opportunity cost.

Considering that the interpretation of a word is receiver dependent only one who thinks of himself as a perfect receiver could accuse the sender of being imperfect.
The omission of “in my name” is entirely forgivable as if you have not understood by reading the text that how you ought to pray the single words won’t rescue it.

It is funny when atheists accuse religious fundamentalists of taking the bible literally, but sad when they do it themselves, particularly when claiming to know better.

I don’t think that taking the Bible promise literally is as funny as interpreting it the opposite as what the text actually says.

What does a non literalist say Jesus meant by saying: nothing is impossible to the one who has faith as small as a mustard seed?

Why did Jesus make this statement if this wasn’t Gods will for him to promise this?

Better yet, what is actually true about the Bible? Perhaps everything Jesus said is one hyperbole? Will anyone make it to heaven or is salvation just one giant hyperbole?

Funny how Christianity runs to Catholicism when the Scripture is challenged. Suddenly there is a need for the authorized interpretation.

 
His provision for our needs is way more than we can know, but sometimes his providential timing and placing is even fun, as a Father playing with his child (“Here, catch! :slightly_smiling_face:”). I don’t remember that I prayed about this before the answer was dropped in my lap, but he knew my need before I  knew it, certainly, let alone ask about it, if I did (believers, enjoy; deniers, deny :slightly_smiling_face:): Cabelas.

How layered was He? I mean, this can be made to work so many ways. Those with less than o much faith can believe anything, for example. And such absurd, existential belief can enable a person to achieve unbelievable things. Cancer can be denied. Or sold. Whereas I only have faith in the faithfulness of Christ to save all. I have never failed to cure people of warts. Never. Including and especially those who utterly ridicule it with fierce rationalism, like mine. I believe that HELPS, at least just as much as being unresistingly suggestible. Now it may be that every wart I’ve charmed would have disappeared anyway. But we all know differently don’t we? Got any? They have to be bought with bright, new copper pennies. You’d have to authorize me to dispose of them on your behalf. I would photograph them for here and then bury them, or drop them in the Sence, your call. Your warts will go. Anyone?

Christians are supposed to pray for those things which are according to God’s will. Righteousness. I.e. social justice, and be the accountable answer, individually and collectively. Prayer is to keep the need in mind, find a way and fulfil it. Hurl the immovable mountain in to the sea. It’s that simple. And that hard.

[Ooh, and in the original spell, used by our family doctor, you leave the pennies at the bus stop.]

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I just watched a church service, and the primary text for the sermon was Matthew 11:7-19. One of the main points was about expectations, and what you expect to see. Expectations can be manifold, and be completely wrong. Maybe it is the eyes (and ears) of faith that have the correct expectations.

Adam Hamilton preached a recent sermon series titled: “A Thinking Person’s Guide to Faith”. If you scroll down on on the linked page, you’ll see the list of the five sermons in the series. Many here (including you, @SuperBigV) might be interested in some of these. The very first one just lays out his own position on science and faith (how to read the 1st chapters of Genesis) … I’ll only say that he doesn’t subscribe to young earth-ism. So I’m not sure if there would be much there that should surprise most participants here. But I’m hoping that you will give some of his other later ones (one about “when Christians get it wrong”, and a later one about Hell) a good listen-to. I think he addresses a lot of stuff that many of you are bringing up here.

-Merv

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I like this. However, Jesus also taught us to pray a request: “Give us this day…”
What I especially like, however, about this post is the recognition of the sheer privilege of speaking with the greatest One of the universe.

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I don’t know Sir. The Church you linked to sounds like a cool place, but at the end, they are still preaching an idea of a God. If there is a God, why not reveal himself to everyone in a clear way? Why does God hide himself and pretty much acts as an imaginary being?

Lets think about this. Here is a being that loves people, unconditionally. He loves everyone, yes? What is stopping him from making himself known?

I have an iPad that has a notability app on it. What is stopping God from writing a message to me? No need to move mountains, or make the lot size of my property larger. It should take very little effort, and yet, he never does this. Would you believe that you are loved by a being who makes zero effort of making himself known?

You might have a look at this discussion from a ways back – it addresses some of your questions: Why there is no proof of God.

 
The Bible indicates otherwise…

and

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20

 
That also harks back to my comment above about expectations, what we expect to see.

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I just started watching the first one, and the second two of the scriptures at the beginning seemed pretty familiar (fyi, if you don’t remember offhand, they were Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20 :slightly_smiling_face:).

Later in the Bible it is clarified that if you ask anything in line with God’s will you will receive it. This is why Jesus says to ask in his name as in he has to approve it. I have had my prayers answered many times. In fact God once clearly spoke to me in response to my prayer. Prayers do get answered.

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As I said above - if you have to say “and this we ask in the name of Jesus” it most likely isn’t, as if it were you would not need to mention it.

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if he would make zero effort it makes you wonder haw so many people could have faith to begin with. I remember when struggling with puberty how I thought there to be no sign of my parents loving me because they did not fulfil my wishes. There are people who devote their life to that claim with regards to God, and Marshall Brain’s book “How God works” or his website why won’t God heal amputees to deny God’s existence based on his failure to make peoples wishes come true in response to prayer.

I then grew up and realised that love was not about someone fulfilling my wishes according to my expectations but about someone tending my needs when required. And needs and wishes are something worlds apart. When it comes to his sermon about God having to restore limbs when prayed for one only has to watch Life without limbs or Joni’ House to see what it means to be healed when your limbs are not what you wish them to be.

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Christians insist that this is exactly what God did … by entering into our world personally with us in the person of Jesus Christ. Much better than any marks on an Ipad screen or mysterious writing in the sky. Life is much more than “intellectual ascent”. It is also a matter of the heart, and of obedience to God’s Spirit.

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In other words, you’ll believe in God if and only if you have no conceivable alternative.

Should I believe that a person had any desire to love and honor a being if they make zero effort to seek him?

and who refused to recognize the many signs and means by which he has already communicated, since what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world?

There is something reminiscent here of those Pharisees that came and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”

Not to mention, if the Christian faith is what it claims to be, God has made quite the significant efforts to communicate and make himself known, right down to personally becoming incarnate, and “of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Granted this was done in such a way that only “those who have eyes to see” will see. That was, after all, why for those outside everything is in parables, so that “‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand.”

So, respectfully, I hear you saying that you will believe in God if and only if you have no conceivable alternative, and are essentially intellectually forced to do so. If “belief” in the base sense of “acknowledge the raw existence of…” is all that is required for salvation and relationship with God, then God “proving” his existence may prove beneficial. You could achieve the same kind of intellectual assent as is understood to be held by the devil and his angels. But, after all, “ Even the demons believe—and shudder!” I’m. Thus I’m not exactly sure why you think that would be in any way helpful?

If, however, as is all over the Bible, raw intellectual assent in the mere existence of God provides no essential benefit to a person, then perhaps it is not surprising that God would give enough evidence that those who want to see him would do so, while declining to reveal himself in such a way that would force people to intellectually assent to the brute fact of his existence when doing so would do nothing for the state of their hearts.

After all, if they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead, or get a personal note on an iPad.

I am personally thankful, and astounded, at all the ways which God has made himself known.

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Well, that’s not certain for me that Jesus entered the world. Secondly, Saul/Paul received a personal appearance of Christ even though he lived in the general area where Christ apparently lived just a few years prior.

Do you get an impression from my posts that I’ve made zero efforts before my deconversion? Perhaps a Muslim God could claim this, and a Hindu Gods too as I’ve not been praying to them ever.