As a comfort or compensation for suffering maybe but as a motivation it smacks of self interest.
Richard
As a comfort or compensation for suffering maybe but as a motivation it smacks of self interest.
Richard
We do not do good for profit. We do it because it is right.
That does not rule out the possibility of rewards (perhaps in heaven, perhaps on earth, perhaps both) for good deeds, whether we want them or not, and whether we were motivated by them or not. What I believe we can be sure of from scripture is that good works are not meritorious in terms of our salvation, which is fully by grace.
That does not rule out the possibility of rewards
I never said that it did, only that they should not be a focus or motivation. To do so would make our efforts self fulfilling rather than because it is the right thing to do.
Richard
My mistake. So when you wrote
(We are not credited with good deeds)
you meant that we are not credited with good deeds insomuch as our salvation is concerned. So we are in agreement in that regard.
You may not have heard of enlightened self-interest, apparently. That was Jesus’ motivation, too.
…who [u]for the joy set before Him[/u] endured the cross, scorning its shame
Even the Beatitudes belie you. “Blessed are…” Rewards are a good motivation for action and sacrifice. Ask anyone involved in sports.
That is also the divinely inspired metaphor that Paul uses. (You might remember the terms ‘race’ and ‘strive’, along with ‘prize’?) A pretty good prize is hearing ‘Well done!’ from our Lord, along with an embrace.
That is also the divinely inspired metaphor that Paul uses. (You might remember the terms ‘race’ and ‘strive’, along with ‘prize’?)
Like I said, Paul uses it as a compensation for the suffering to get there…
Why should it matter to you? Can you not do right for the intrinsic value?
Richard
Can you not do right for the intrinsic value?
You certainly can. Why else?
Can you not do right for the intrinsic value?
Doing right for the intrinsic value is gratifying, is it not? But you appear to disagree. Are self-denial, sacrifice and suffering good things in themselves?
All we need to want (check out that subtitle
, an apparent oxymoron
):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DEPEO6/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
This speaks to motivation:
https://www.amazon.com/Future-Grace-Revised-Purifying-Promises-ebook/dp/B008LMD8S0/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Can you not do right for the intrinsic value?
I’d like to make that claim , but honestly I can’t, not totally. I agree with C.S. Lewis that “I never had a selfless thought since I was born.” I am okay, imperfectly but for the most part, with people not seeing whatever “good works” I do. But I always hope God takes note.
“I never had a selfless thought since I was born.”
This has always been at the heart of the matter for me whenever the question of free will vs determinism comes up. If free will means being free from being the self that you are then, please, make me determined.
But I always hope God takes note.
I bet you don’t always. I would wager (if I were a betting man and had any wages
), I would wager that you do the right thing spontaneously and unthinkingly much of the time without reflection on whether or not God takes note. Coram Deo is our perpetual condition, hopefully. ![]()
My wife just asked me what the conversation was about. When I told her, she replied astutely, “Virtue is its own reward.” 
“Virtue is its own reward .”
Kismet
Richard
“Virtue is its own reward .”
John Henry Newman
Dale
I see no virtue in dwelling on something that I have no control over.
That is my prerogative. And it does not affect the Gospel in the least…
Richard
If the Gospel isn’t gratifying to anyone, it makes a huge difference:
…who [u]for the joy set before Him[/u] endured the cross, scorning its shame
It’s impossible, for we are involved in Modern Day consumption of the Planet and in competition with Each other. We can’t be Stewards for We all are living as blessed consuming the Planets Resources. All We can do is try to not be tempted by the accepted Sins. I don’t gamble (Lottery), I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t commit adultery, I don’t do any mind altering Drugs(Legal Marijuana). I don’t own a Gun for I have Faith in the Angels. I don’t take Legal mind altering Drugs prescribed by Doctors, this is what killed Elvis, Michael Jackson, etc. I don’t own stocks, it is not investing for it is gambling that it will be worth more in the future with no good works just a electronic ownership. I don’t have any enemies for how can you love Your Enemies?, therefore I have no Enemies.
The Amish try but of course they have conditions too.
I am a Born Again Child of Our Father and He doesn’t want me to participate in Accepted Adult Behavior, just like You don’t want Your Children not to do. Flee Her Rev 18:4.
All We can do is ask Father to Forgive Us, try not to sin anymore, and believe Jesus knows what inadvertent sins we commit, for some things We know not what We do.
Lastly, Jesus said My Kingdom is not of this World, We cannot create His Kingdom here as The book of Acts has shown, or else there Would be a Kingdom here.
Peter addressed humanity outside the Pearly Gates.
“This is how it’s going to work, I will read through the Ten Commandments and everyone who has broken one will be removed.”
And so it was. One by one , the fallen were removed, until only a handful of rigid faced Monks were left.
God took one look and said
“Bring them all back. I can’t spend eternity with this lot!”
(author unknown)
Richard
Therefore there is no Hell. Why do We need Police, Military and Churches?
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.