Being able to act without being acted upon, can be true of a contingent being.
Eh?
The person who can act without being acted upon is what I assumed you took for an entirely independent agent
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To more fully answer your question, a person that can act without being acted upon, need not be entirely independent. This person can be independent with respect to their action, but dependent in their existence.
Contingent in being, but necessary with respect to their action.
Thanks for adding a bit more.
And going back to what I think is the original reference,
I guess I’m still not grasping what you’re getting at.
Personally I’d be distrustful of anyone who seeks to get a reaction without opening themselves up to being acted upon.
That’s what a person is capable of. Maybe there is conscious life out there in this massive universe where galaxies flow like leaves in a magnetic stream. If not, even as big as it is, we would be something far more spectacular than those streams even flowing to an ocean.
In hindsight, and in coming back to reread the comment I wrote, my laughter seemed inappropriate or the moment passed. So I edited it out.
Your comment still comes across as off. To me it feels confused about the point I am making.
Is this comment appropriate? First I found it funny, then I tried to engage it, now it just upsets me.
@Kendel as if I have not opened myself to all manner of criticism and I have corrected myself when I have found I have said, done, or believed something which is wrong.
I am one of the first to say reasonable people can disagree about the Bible, I do not support religious authoritarianism as a result. Yet how I am supposed to speak in an understanding and open way to people who say that conscious decisions are an illusion. This is the irony of ironies.
I tried to take the study that @T_aquaticus provided as proof people don’t make conscious decisions seriously, but he wouldn’t take me seriously to explain the dataset for me.
Ironic that this charge is being brought against me in a forum supporting evolutionary creation in which I have participated for well over a year. It’s not like I’m not willing to talk about the things I write about.
Mike, I was running (metaphorically) all day yesterday. I hadn’t turned my mind to this thread at all. I just saw your @ to me this morning. Are you bringing me and T_aquaticus into your discussion with Mark? I’m not sure what my part in this would be.
I had intended to ask you what your thinking was behind this:
and
but now may not be the right time.
And I was responding to this …
… when I wrote this …
… because I don’t find anything spectacular about someone who seeks to act on others without opening themselves in the encounter. Sorry if saying so was upsetting but I wonder, @heymike3, if you can appreciate why someone would find it off putting?
I wanted to mention my discussion with T_aquaticus in this context of conscious decision. I mentioned you because you should have something to say about Mark’s comment, or you can confirm or deny the accuracy of what I just wrote.
The action I’m talking about, is snapping my fingers. And I don’t mean in someone’s face.
How I am supposed to speak in an understanding and open way to people who say this ability to consciously determine an action is an illusion?
Is this the “what I just wrote” that you’re referring to, the accuracy of which you would like me to confirm?:
Do I have the right pieces of text in mind and quoted above? Anything I’m missing?
That is the comment I was referring to
Ok. Thanks, Mike.
I can only address what involves me. I don’t believe I’ve been a part of your discussion with T_aquaticus, and I believe Mark has replied to you up a few posts.
I believe I have seen improvements in your responses to my posts and willingness not to respond as well. Thank you.
I had considered going into specifics, but I don’t think that would really be productive.
I remember one of our earliest interactions where you felt the need to correct something I wrote in response to Mark. I genuinely received what you had to say.
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I don’t remember, but thank you, Mike.
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That’s one of the interactions that I remember well. If I told you it was the comment where I switched out Mark’s use of plural pronouns for first person singular, then you may start to remember it.