hoopla has the audiobook! I’m excited for this one! Both for the time and place, as well as the love with which it is written… and the narration is just gorgeous.
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Having joined Channel McGilchrist, a website with a forums for discussion I also get an occasional newsletter. Each chapter begins with some quotes and I rather liked these. This latest book of his contains the cure for scientism. From the newsletter:
The Matter with Things by Iain McGilchrist
Chapter 17 : Intuition’s claims on truth
The heart’s unrest is not to be stilled by logic.
— Friedrich Waismann
If you have intuitions at all, they come from a deeper level of your nature than
the loquacious level which rationalism inhabits.
— William James
There is in us something wiser than our head.
— Arthur Schopenhauer
In this Part II of the book we are concerned with the paths by which we may approach the truth. Contemporary culture favours science and (very much in theory) reason as the ultimately valid approaches, and is deeply sceptical about intuition and imagination – the former because it is regarded as primitive, quirky and unreliable, and the latter because it supposedly just ‘makes things up’ .
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“The heart’s unrest is not to be stilled by logic.”
There it is again, what logic can and cannot tell.
“He was reluctant to open it, for once such a thing is opened, it cannot be shut again.”
“Cry, the Beloved Country” by Alan Paton
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- Even spelled correctly, that’s an eye-catching term.
- Watched “Three Pines” [A Canadian murder mystery] a few days ago. And “easy categories” was a major motif: specifically, “aboriginal vs. European” history. The Chief Inspector throughout the multiple episodes is “an Indian”; a fact which left me wondering if the humor in that choice of actors for the role was intentional or coincidental.
- More importantly and relevant, the context for the term seems, unless I’m wrong, to be David Brooks’ book, “The Second Mountain”. Unfamiliar with it, I searched and in 20 minutes was brought up to speed on key points in the book by listening to this Audio Summary of The Second Mountain
- I am reminded once more of Psalm 127:1 - “Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.”
Corrected, as well as a typo or two, for your reading pleasure. I think your point with Psalm 127 is that good works without God are rubbish, so to speak. A good point, but it is a book meant to appeal to a broad audience. Brooks quotes people of faith, and has Biblical references, but it is not an apologetic for Christianity, more an appeal to finding joy though service and relationship, something that all created in God’s image can aspire to. Who knows, if people see Christ in us, maybe they will take it seriously.
I sort of reminds me of the interview with Bono in CT where he spoke of U2’s music being in the strange place of being too religious for the secular community and too secular for the religious. A lot of common ideas between the book and Bono’s philosophy.
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-
- An anecdote:
- In the mid-1970s, I was a “covenanted” [i.e. committed] member of St. John the Baptist Catholic Charismatic Renewal Community in San Francisco. By 1978, I was rightfully “booted” out of the community and appropriately forced to leave an “urban commune” sponsored by SJB-CCRC across the street from the University of San Francisco.
- The Community had, over the two years prior to my departure become more structured and top-down authoritarian. By “odd” circumstance, about the time that I left the community, the leadership team affirmed a clear “calling” to all who were willing and able, to leave San Francisco and move to South Bend Indiana. That “call” split the community into three groups:
- Those who chose to move,
- Those who chose to remain; and
- Those who couldn’t go and didn’t like what was left when the first group moved.
- By the grace of God, IMO, I got booted out of the community just in time.
- Those who moved joined a pre-existing CCRC community: People of Praise.
- Their “works” exceed the works of the secular, IMO.
- Brooks’ version of “finding joy” is certainly “inspirational”, but I can’t help thinking that it doesn’t measure up to the “joy” we are offered through Jesus Christ.
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Nor any kind of theistic religion from what I’ve gathered.
Does his religious experience totally amount to seeing the souls of other people?
Believe me, I’m willing, and would happily be wrong about what I see.
I think they are related and complementary, rather than exclusive or opposed in any way.
Interesting history. I’ll check your link.I am ignorant of those groups, but it is interesting how the tribe responds to those who perhaps are irregular. I think all churches (and Rotary Clubs) are sometimes guilty of failing to reach out to those who do not fit the mold, and in some cases forcing them out altogether.
(I googled CCRC, and got a bunch of chronic care retirement communities!)
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LOL!
- Chronic care communities is pretty much the Church in this world, isn’t it? “Retirement”, not so much, but premature, these days.
- Try Catholic Charismatic Renewal Community. Look for a picture of Pope Francis on the inside somewhere.
Try “unrelated and different”.
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Is Brooks’ religious view perfectly indistinguishable from humanism? I can’t access the book, otherwise I would be doing a search.
Matthew 25:31-46 reminds me that we don’t always know how our actions impact eternity. It is an perplexing area of Christian thought. I too have been taught that good acts with the wrong motivation is worthless, yet we see the parable of the Good Samaritan where right belief is of little use to those lying in the ditch.
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Sorry I don’t buy the, “we’re better off if we leave God out of this.”
You can’t love one without loving the other. So yes, complementary and related. I just don’t see Brooks having any use for God on the second mountain.
- He writes for the New York Times.
- If you can read This, maybe you can decide for yourself.
- Note: As of May 1 2019, the author of the article in the NYT wrote: “While his first wife had converted to Judaism and kept their home kosher, in this marriage Brooks hints of his own conversion to Christianity. He appears to still be wrestling with it. “Do I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ?” he asks. “The simple, brutally honest answer is, ‘It comes and goes.’” This is the only time that this master of certainty expresses any doubt. His book would be immensely more powerful with more of it.”
I can’t access the article. But I’m sure @jpm can either confirm or deny my understanding of the book.
- You too? Ha! If you think that’s what I believe, then you’re as wrong as other people who do not know me at all.
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It seemed to be along the lines of what your were referring to here. Perhaps I misunderstood your intent.
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Ok, I read the NYT article and this apparently sums it up:
“There is another kind of happiness, let’s call it joy, that comes from helping others.”
I like how John Piper, who does not pull any punches on the joy we find in another person’s well being, says the chief end of man is to glorify God by enjoying him forever.
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And I just found this gem while looking through Piper’s book Desiring God:
“Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father’” (John 4:21). In other words, don’t get bogged down in unessential controversies. It is possible to worship God in vain both in your place and in ours! Did not God say, “This people…honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me” (Isaiah 29:13)? The issue is not where, but how.
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Add edit to explain: When I write body head I mean spiritual body spiritual head.
Here’s what light teaches me - allow - it is when I allow light in me teach me, light feeds my spirit., here you’ll see more detail, that I keep re-learning with in my situations. You @Dale brought to my attention I don’t explain in detail what light teaches., thank you for bringing that to my attention because you’re correct. I fail to explain.
Thread topic is: Pithy quotes from our current reading which give us pause to reflect
Mine is ‘relationship’ and here’s why I reflect from pithy quotes, for days, as I was brought attention to this.
@jpm wrote: good acts with the wrong motivation is worthless
Riversea wrote: I don’t rely on good acts nor my motivation, nor do I rely on helping people in need, nor do I rely on my bad acts, instead I rely on what Jesus has communicated ‘relationship.’ For I (riversea) am not the spiritual head, nor any acts equals anything, for nothing is dependent on me because I’m not the spiritual head. I’m of Christ body only. Any thing I do isn’t spiritual head. It isn’t of good acts that equals worth. Because good acts isn’t spiritual head. God spiritual head wants a relationship with all of us. It’s about a relationship, and not about good works that people thinks equals worth or worthless, within their perspectives. Body of Christ has no equals of worth or worthlessness that’s base on body alone: that’s headless then, a body without a head. For Body is not an image of it’s own body to goal anywhere. Body of Christ is of image of spiritual head. Relationship.
I think through relationship and what Jesus has communicated for all. All people have eternal life ‘relationship.’ I don’t rely on my works., for eternal relationship., because I’m not spiritual head. I’m of the body of Christ. That’s my reflection pithy from this quotes verses that @jpm shared.
Also keep in mind, when reading these verses below; the words no and separation means until. Because spiritual head is true time, because separation is not true time. Separation is not spiritual head. Any goat is through until, because spiritual head is true time. Eternal hell is the quenching of the Holy Spirit that quenches spirit until drinks. (sounds more like universal Christianity am I correct) @Mervin_Bitikofer
What I find though fire of Holy Spirit is the water for our spirit, so when drinking from Holy Spirit is spiritual food., is it then the fire of Holy Spirit when not drinking from, so quenching, then burns away, that until, drink from Holy Spirit.,
This: I’ll make up an example: if physically breathing, what happens when not breathing, one then is led to breath, I’m using this as an example., is if not breath is the word not then means until, because to not physically breath then will encourage to physical breath because of that (hell) of not breathing. I’m using that as an example., because the spiritual head is the breath for our spiritual life for us to breath.
1 Corinthians 15:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive
word no means until another quote ijtps.com/gallery/no.11-5-year6-2022-jhunjhunwala.pdf
On page 70 towards the bottom explains the word ‘not’ The word for “not” in this verse is “lebilti" meaning until. To drink from., Adam didn’t drink, not means until drink, but Adam didn’t drink, Notice Adam ‘all’, until Jesus ‘all’, yet the word not was used explaining until… I hope this helps understand how I reflect on pithy quotes, it isn’t on one word and creating rules.,
What is rules but people created, due to their seeking approval but what is that? seeking only image of body?
Instead I understand about ‘not one word,’ but of communication that ‘not means until’ ‘separation means until’ relationship drink from,
for our spirit until drinks will be thirsty empty to drink from and many try to drink from other sources and doesn’t satisfy their thirst, 'till drink from Christ,
which adds to this, to rely on other areas as spiritual head will only lead to empty., for that is only drinking from body., perhaps that’s what idol worship means is drinking from body or objects which is indirect body (drink rock is still for sake of body trying, is having idol as spiritual head, will lead to spiritually empty thirsty, it’ll maybe cause the person to try harder as they perfect this, trying to seek approval, but it isn’t relying on our abilities, for we body and the indirect rock isn’t spiritual food), , it is empty. Perhaps what goats were doing; however goats will learn as all is used, to bring us all to drink from Christ our spiritual head. To what reasons did spiritual head allow us not to drink from., is for our deeper understanding., that’ll until drink, earth seems to be for deeper understanding, I notice this, so that’s why I reason this as communication.
Below these verses reminds me of relationship, and not yet relationship however until. I have a relationship with God., and as these verses shows people in need and have you help these people., were they drinking from body (people they were helping) or from Christ; Tricky area that @jpm was writing about, good acts with wrong motivations is worthless., I’m brought to attention to this thread and am responding, God who came down to my level before me knowing rules, as rules are not the spiritual head., nor is hell the spiritual head, nor is hell true time., goats is until become sheep, and be relieved to allow goats learn a deeper understanding - for all is used for our deeper understanding in Christ. What it’s like to not drink not breath leads to drink breath, because hell is not spiritual head. Eternal is true time in Christ. Hell is in Christ as well, 'till drink from Christ.
Verses that was shared Matthew 25:31-46
31“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32“All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
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