Which I happily take, but of course I used an example where all of us here would not have much sympathy with the opponent’s case. I’m pretty sure I’ve also said “boys will be boys” before as a way to at least partially ‘excuse?’ some recalcitrant behavior in question. And yet I’ve heard devastating and successful critiques of just how damaging that attitude can be when applied willy-nilly (think of rape cultures even). And I totally agree that it is a loathsome and despicable response to give to evil situations. So is there some lesser point all the way down from heinous evil down into mere (and even cute) mischief where that response may be harmless - even appropriate? Or is it always a slippery slope cultivating eventual “devil made me do it” attitudes?
My biggest sin in this area (and I understand why many get exasperated with it) is to just say, “Whatever.”
I basically means, I am done talking and done listening and will not argue even though you are wrong. I am not sure it would be characterized as cultish behavior in a classical sense, but post-modern cultish groups seem to use a variation in which they say “that is your truth, and that is good for you, while our different truth is what we follow and is equally valid.”
…meanwhile embracing alternative facts.
Tough call, Merv.
There are some phrases that have been eliminated from my active vocabulary over the years, and “Boys will be boys,” is one of them. My cousin was married briefly to an immature, narcissitic PK (pastor’s kid), who spent all his free time out with his buddies and spent Mandy’s hard-earned money like water. Mandy tried to talk to him. Fruitless. She talked to his pastor dad. “Boys will be boys.”
In’nt dat cute? “Boys will be boys.”
My eye!
Mandy left the pointless marriage for her own phyical, psychological and financial safety but with two small boys. Their sperm doner has nothing to do with them. “Boys will be boys.”
Fortuntately for her, her parents were incredibly supportive and have helped her stay on her feet, taking care of the boys a lot to make work possible for her.
But boys will be boys.
Whoo! From a pastor!
But for boys to be willfully self indulgent and irresponsible requires a special kind of enabling neglect.
The retort to that should always be … yes; but they need to grow up to be men.
Yeah. You’re right. But I won’t hear it again the same way.
Additionally, the phrase as I know it, is regularly used as a verbal handwave (and “Get over it!”) for pre-adolescent tom-foolery (I have stronger language in mind) and destructive behavior prepetrated by males over 15. It brings to my mind the worst of the worst behavior being forgiven because they’re male and can get away with anything.
Maybe it’s because I grew up in a family of few male cousins that were near my age and no brothers. There was an enormous amount of estrogen and sense of sorority among us girls. My sister, girl cousins and I looked out for each other and ready to take whatever measures we had in our power to deal with the unruly male cousins or classmates. They didn’t get any extra perks because they were boys. None of us had any patience for them trying to push us around.
Hoowee. I can feel my dander up just thinking about it.
It’s different if you’re equipped with oats to sow or with sacred ground where every seed that sprouts seemingly matters more than you do.
Yes.
[Magnificently phrased, Mark.]
As a male, I feel I have to apologize for this. My dad, a very conservative, gentle man, would have been very ashamed if either of us boys acted like that; as would both of my grandfathers.
Randy,
You can’t apologize for my uncouth cousins’ or classmates’ behavior. One of them, by the way, is named Randy. He is nothing like you.
Not all males are like this, and honestly, few that I know would say, “Boys will be boys.” My dad and his brother certainly never would have.
By the time my dad rolled around, his parents were done raising kids, yet would eventually produce my aunt quite a few years later. Dad raised himself without preparation or skill. He was lucky not to be in jail or reform school by the time he was 12; he must have been good at flying under the radar.
When Dad (and my uncle) started thinking about fatherhood, of course they expected the oldest to be male, as always is the case (about 50% of the time). So I’m named after him (Kendel was as close as they could get to Kenneth for a girl.) My uncle had 3 daughters, and my parents 2 (along with two miscarriages, one of which was male). I’m sure that having daughters, all daughters, was a shock and terror to both men. I mean, how does a man raise or have any kind of relationship with these? He certainly never saw that modeled from his own parents. My sister and I learned to use tools with him, clean his service revolver, shine shoes, build things, read car manual diagrams, fly kites and the like. He learned to see girls and women differently. All the kids in our blue-collar cookie-cutter neighborhood loved Dad. He was always doing something interesting in the yard, was sober, wasn’t yelling at Mom or us, and was regularly employed at a really decent job.
He grew up. And he recognized the damage that licensing lousy behavior does. As a deputy sheriff, he dealt with it regularly professionally.
You are raising your kids thoughtfully and well. That’s what’s needed. You are an exemplary man. That’s what’s needed. Carry on with those things. You have nothing to apologize for.
You are so gracious, Kendel. And yet, it’s not surprising that some of us can wind up with a fear of a group when they have been deeply hurt. I am glad your dad did so well.
I think there is a role, given how we all struggle with pain, in taking responsibility (not guilt, perhaps) in correcting the wrongs people feel at the hands of a group. You are very good at that. I am still learning.
Thanks for your kind discussion.
And now that I have pounded my pet peeve in so deeply it is about to hit ground water, and perhaps all at @Mervin_Bitikofer 's expense, when he we only providing an example of a thought-terminating cliché, I should drop the topic all together. Sorry, Merv. I really did get carried away.
I appreciate the really decent, thoughtful group of men around here.
I enjoyed the trail! Thank you all for your thoughts
\
No worries, Kendel. I agree with you and Randy that it leads to bad places and excuses bad behavior that we should rightly be held responsible to change.
Nobody says any of this kind of stuff about anything they passionately care about. Nobody, after being grievously robbed declares … “Oh well! Thieves will be thieves!”
Finally finished Dune. An excellent example of world(s?) building that draws from many, many sources of inspiration. I did find Herbert’s exploration of the relationship between politics, the power of myth, and religion fascinating… but as always, I was mainly in it for the story 
.
Next, I plan to read Fellowship of the Ring, prompted to dive back into Middle Earth by the Rings of Power.
I’ve also been meaning to post a link to a reading of Haiku poems that focus on science, horror, and speculative/science fiction. I had the joy of being part of the selection team (and contributing a few of my own) and the submissions were beautiful, deep, and on more than one occasion truly thought provoking.
Watch this space.
Wow! @LM77 ! That’s fantastic. @SkovandOfMitaze will surely want to watch out for the haikus.
Looking forward to those and highlights from the novels. I love them all as well.
“Dune” read in light of “Cultish: the Language of Fanaticism” (which i am reading right now) would be very interesting. Herbert was acutely atuned to the subtlties of language and its controlling power.
Definitely, I love the materialistic take on magic that he uses for the Bene Gesserits’ “voice” powers. I found it so fresh, even though the book is almost 60 years old.
As for the speculative haiku, you can listen to the podcast on the link below, or search Haiku Pea S5E12 wherever you get your podcasts.
https://poetrypea.com/s5e12-original-speculative-haiku-senryu/
Would love to hear your thoughts!
Just found it in Google Podcasts. Can’t wait to listen. What is senryu? Maybe I will find out as I finish up supper prep and KP.
Regarding Dune Herbert brilliantly placed it in a futuristic medieval feudal society so it speaks to all of us northern european (derived) types as if it were written yesterday.
I do wonder about the “universality” its appeal to other groups, say Black Americans or any indigenous groups. You know?
Thanks for the link. Time to listen.
Update [18:29 EST]: @LM77 I set off the smoke alarm 3 times while roasting a slab of ribs in the oven for supper. Needless to say, the podcast was irreparably interrupted. Until about now. I will try again, while I clean up the aftermath.