Pithy quotes from our current reading which give us pause to reflect

Just saw this on Facebook attributed to Pope Francis:

Rivers do not drink their own water; trees do not eat their own fruit; the sun does not shine on itself and flowers do not spread their fragrance for themselves. Living for others is a rule of nature. We are all born to help each other. No matter how difficult it is…Life is good when you are happy; but much better when others are happy because of you.

-Pope Francis

Cool sentiment! But I was thinking about how so many of us here would make hay out of all this … Of course flowers are “doing it for themselves” (to further indulge in personification and intention that we know is really not there - at least not on the part of the flower). But even so, and with that indulgence allowed, the flower is absolutely doing it “for itself” in order to attract pollinators, etc. And yet the point still survives, I think. Of course we all want to “make ourselves happy” … it’s just that the enlightened view on that is in order to “achieve” it, you need to paradoxically aim for the happiness of others. Aiming at your own always causes you to miss. And the farther out from your own (your own loved ones, your own kin, your own tribe) you can aim while still keeping those loved ones in your expanding “cone of care”, the higher a spiritual state your happiness will be. The man who lives only for his wife may still be quite selfish in doing so, but is still better off than the man living only for himself.

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That is really well put. I like the thought. Thank you!

Lewis’ theme in “Surprised by Joy” was that–as a child, he always sought joy, but wasn’t able to find it (seeing glimpses of it in books, games with make-believe talking animals like “Boxen,” and mythology) till he found joy in God.

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I suspect this is why I would rather spend six hours out doing conservation work than one hour doing maintenance on my house.

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This article has been interesting and intersects many thinkers I first heard about here:
(Revival – really? | Seen & Unseen)

Some snippets (heck, I’ve practically copied the whole article, but all bolding is my own):

Whisper it if you will, but an increasing number of observers are wondering if we are creeping towards some kind of Christian revival. High-profile public figures such as former atheist author Ayaan Hirsi Ali, novelist Paul

Kingsnorth, comedian Russell Brand and storyteller Martin Shaw have converted.

A term has been coined for someone close to Christianity but just outside it, such as Holland: “Christian-adjacent”. The broadcaster Justin Brierley has devoted a book to this apparent renewed interest, The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God.

The author and psychiatrist Iain McGilchrist says of a possible religious revival: “I feel that there is [one], and I feel that there will be. And I think it’s important.” Already, he says, “It’s much easier to talk about religion and one’s religious beliefs … than it would have been 20 years ago [and] a lot of people say that.” Some young people who are not from a religious background have surprised him by finding their way to religion.

People he knows who have turned to Christianity in mid-life have moved “to the Catholic Church, but most of them to the Orthodox Church, because they see … genuine valid, uninterrupted tradition of the divine and the sacred, of worship of it, of the sense of wonder, the sense of relative humility, not triumphant exaltation, and the sense of a shared oneness that is encaptured in these ancient rituals.”

McGilchrist believes the route of fulfilment “is oneness with nature, with the Divine and with one another,” and that rediscovering a connection to the Sacred (he refers to the Sacred or Divine rather than religion) would address other pressing issues such as the “poisoning of the oceans”, due to “a proper understanding of our position in the cosmos, not as the exploiter, but as the caretaker.”

Of his own views, he says: “I genuinely am not sure how to understand what it means to be a Christian really, but I suspect that I am one.”

Dr Vernon, whose faith journey has included atheism, follows what he calls a “commodious” Christianity – “my perspective on the universal story, which I think is ultimately beyond any one expression of it – and focuses on the “Christ [that] lives within me”, in contrast to “more socially driven” or “conversion-driven” Western Christianity.

For Abby Day, Professor of Race, Faith and Culture at Goldsmiths, University of London, any talk of religious revival is “wishful thinking” but like Vernon she believes that if anything were to speak to the “spiritual but not religious” it would be “within them, or maybe within nature” and “non-institutional”.

Professor Day is wary of the interest in Christianity from the populist right, as seen in the European elections and US Evangelicals’ support of Trump. They “claim Christianity, but what they’re claiming is a national identity, and so we’re seeing Christianity be weaponised” to deliver a conservative agenda, she says.

Day, author of Why Baby Boomers Turned from Religion, takes issue with some of Holland’s arguments, saying: “The Churches have not shown themselves to be exemplary models of equality or human rights.”

That puts established religion in good company. But the Churches the Boomers rejected may have become humbler during their exile, and alternatives are available that offer different emphases. Vernon notes that the Orthodoxy that has attracted Kingsnorth and Shaw – Vernon’s “favourite convert of this revival” – is comfortable with other faiths and is more about participation through liturgy than converting to safeguard your immortal soul. And one attraction of the silence Vernon enjoys is that it doesn’t give glib answers, including to the profound questions around meaning, purpose and identity that beset nation, Church and individuals alike.

Putin’s violent ambitions could yet drive people to prayer. For now, at least, the more thinkers publicly take Christianity seriously and rediscover its wonder and mystery, the fairer hearing its stories, values, social benefits and cultural legacy will receive in the rowdy market-place of ideas, offering – at the very least – the cradle agnostic a more informed choice.

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Interesting piece. I’m glad she mentions “christian” nationalism and what it is really about, she could have expanded from Putin’s violence to our (U.S.) own leader’s use of violence, which IS relevant to the discussion. Thanks, Mark.

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  • The ending of The Cage by Bertram Chandler.
    • “Not so fast,” said Boyle. “Put us in the picture, will you? What made them realize that we were rational beings?”
      Hawkins’ face darkened.
      “Only rational beings,” he said,“put other beings in cages.”
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Quote from “Anne’s House of Dreams,” on the death of Anne’s baby, Joyce, soon after birth. I appreciate the kindness, especially when I think some of the books were originally made for a Sunday School periodical:

“Time will help you,” said Marilla, who was racked with sympathy but could never learn to express it in other than age-worn formulas.

“It doesn’t seem fair,” said Anne rebelliously. “Babies are born and live where they are not wanted–where they will be neglected-- where they will have no chance. I would have loved my baby so–and cared for it so tenderly–and tried to give her every chance for good. And yet I wasn’t allowed to keep her.”

“It was God’s will, Anne,” said Marilla, helpless before the riddle of the universe–the why of undeserved pain. “And little Joy is better off.”

“I can’t believe that,” cried Anne bitterly. Then, seeing that Marilla looked shocked, she added passionately, “Why should she be born at all–why should any one be born at all–if she’s better off dead? I don’t believe it is better for a child to die at birth than to live its life out–and love and be loved–and enjoy and suffer–and do its work–and develop a character that would give it a personality in eternity. And how do you know it was God’s will? Perhaps it was just a thwarting of His purpose by the Power of Evil. We can’t be expected to be resigned to that.”

“Oh, Anne, don’t talk so,” said Marilla, genuinely alarmed lest Anne were drifting into deep and dangerous waters. “We can’t understand–but we must have faith–we must believe that all is for the best. I know you find it hard to think so, just now. But try to be brave–for Gilbert’s sake. He’s so worried about you. You aren’t getting strong as fast as you should.”

“Oh, I know I’ve been very selfish,” sighed Anne. “I love Gilbert more than ever–and I want to live for his sake. But it seems as if part of me was buried over there in that little harbor graveyard-- and it hurts so much that I’m afraid of life.”

“It won’t hurt so much always, Anne.”

“The thought that it may stop hurting sometimes hurts me worse than all else, Marilla.”

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That is chilling. Originally in a short story, it was later picked up as a theme in a novel, with a counter-argument that no rational being would ever cage a being that might be rational.

“…peace needs the consent of all, while one alone may raise a war.” Flynn, Michael. Eifelheim (p. 173). (Function). Kindle Edition.

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“The real reason why Copernicus raised no ripple, and Galileo raised a storm, may well be that whereas one raised a new proposal about celestial motions, the other insisted on treating the proposal as fact. If so, the real revolution consisted not in a theory of the heavens, but in a new theory in the nature of theory.”

@TedDavis , I have been listening, for the first time, to one of C S Lewis’ non Christian books about medieval literature, “The Discarded Image.” It is way, way over my head, and I doubt I will make it all the way through, though I like Lewis’ writing manner, and it reminds me of some of his other, kindly Christian works, like “The Weight of Glory.” . However, this quote really struck me. I wonder if you could weigh in on this quote, and how we may learn from that in approaching science and communication. Is humility a key? I know that Galileo was perceived as being somewhat abrasive, and maybe that’s a contribution to that reception, too. Thank you

@Randy, Lewis was nearly always right in his analyses of the history of ideas, and this is yet another instance. I would gloss/modify his view by nuancing its treatment of Copernicus.

In fact, Copernicus himself took Earth’s motion about the Sun as a fact (the double use of “fact” here is intentional). He believed Earth really moves, or he would never have spent so much time trying to justify a proposition that everyone else at that point regarded as obviously counterfactual for many reasons–including the fact (at the time) that no one could find observational evidence for it.

However, his book contained an unauthorized preface by Andreas Osiander, the first (I think) Lutheran minister (a former Catholic priest) in Nuremberg. Without Copernicus’ knowledge, Osiander advised readers not to take “the hypotheses in this work” literally; i.e., Copernicus did not really mean what he did really mean. Prior to Galileo three generations later, nearly all astronomers followed Osiander’s advice, even though they did their own thinking about Copernicus’ ideas. It wasn’t until after Galileo’s discoveries, strongly favoring Copernicus (but still not “proving” that Earth moves), that Earth’s motion gained substantial support. And, it was not until the 18th century that it was pretty much a slam dunk.

You can read about this in zillions of places. For a full exposition of my own version, including the disputes about how to understand the Bible if Earth really moves, you might subscribe for a month to ClassicalU and listen to my lectures: The Scientific Revolution: Its Classical and Christian History – ClassicalU .

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Thank you so much, Dr Davis. This is much more of a gold mine than I had hoped for! It’s also more complicated than I had hoped.

It also gives me insight into Lewis’ mind and frailties.

Thank you.
Randy

“Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith. They keep it awake and moving.”
–Frederick Buechner

“Doubt isn’t the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith… Sometimes I think it is my mission to bring faith to the faithless, and doubt to the faithful.” – Paul Tillich

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