If we had no choice but to be obedient, that would negate love. We also would not know the extent to which God loves us, redeeming us at such enormous cost to himself.
You clearly cannot understand the significance of any sort of restriction. Being unable to sin? What is sin? If that involves risking life then you rule out⌠virtually everything that is enjoyable! (Because it would include anything that risked even your own life. Sex? Betting / Gambling? Any sport that has any sort of risk involved. Mountain climbing. Flying? (even in an aircraft).
If there is no death then there can be no births. Most of the ecosystem relies on death to continue. Hurricanes, tornados, volcanos, all part of the earthâs regeneration and controlling systems.
The âNew Heaven and new Earthâ cannot exist on our planet as it is now.
If you cannot sin then you cannot have a free will, because part of free will is the freedom to be both wrong, and sinful. If you can only choose right then you cannot choose at all. (except for minor insignificant choices like what to wear or eat, as long as it is not fattening, poisonous or harmful , of course)
Richard
How can doubt lead to doubting that God is good? As Yancey does. My doubt is of God at all.
Thatâs because the only evidence of His existence-goodness is the claim of incarnation in our otherwise purposeless existence.
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I hope youâre saying that rhetorically, because it is not just a claim, and it is correct that if we are not in Godâs family and he is not our Father, then yes, existence is otherwise meaningless. God wants childlike hearts:
Little children donât think their lives are meaningless â that is something they are taught by a godless world and maybe by nasty parents (who are part of a godless world).
All we - a minority of humanity, through a glass darkly - have is the claim and its impact on our hearts. God wants childlike hearts in what regard? Apart from, if He is, trust Him?
Thanks for bringing this up. @Christy. I found a friend of mine is currently meeting with a group of 4-5 other guys, sponsored by a church that encourages honest questioning and learning. He suggested reading Greg Boydâs book, âInspired Imperfection.â Sometimes, I guess, itâs seeing folks like Yancey and Boyd, who have learned to accept tremendous tension, that helps us see the long view. Itâs a bit like being a teenage with the angst of the nowâitâs hard to see the other side.
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Excellent article Christy. My favourite part is the following quoteâŚ
God must understand that on a broken planet invaded by evil, occasions will arise when for us puny humans nothing makes sense and we feel unloved and abandoned. Surely Jesus understandsâŚfor from the cross he cried out, âMy God, my God, why have you abandoned me?ââŚâDoubt is canât believe; unbelief is wonât believe. Doubt is honesty; unbelief is obstinacy. Doubt is looking for light; unbelief is content with darkness.â
Thank you for posting this Christy, its made my day and its something i will share with my wife as she has found the last few weeks rather stressful and difficult and im sure it will uplift her too.
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Thanks for this trip down memory lane, Adam. Even just a few short years, and this was a fresh article for me again. Yeah, there are some great thoughts and quotes in there. This time through I particularly liked the phrase âloyal doubt companionsâ. And his charge that churches should be supplying those to people. Not vetting people at the door and turning them away if they fail some tribal membership test.
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But wouldnt you agree that the bible narrative pretty comprehsensively describes God and all of his attributes?
So true. The more i study the more doubt i have. This correlates with the level of faith i also must have to continue following the Christian world view. I have so much more knowledge these days, however it doesnt solve the fundamental dilemmaâŚi still cant prove God! All i have done i think is convince myself that this is the only viable world viewâŚbut that is all i have, the rest is faith and hope.
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Never comprehensively (meaning completely) I would say. Though if youâre looking for the thing or person who (according to the Christian faith) is our final word on who God is, the Bible does point us to the Somebody who is that final word for us.
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No the Bible does not give the faithful the power to render God fully visible or knowable in a savoir sense. The Bible is a good point of entree through which one can begin to know God in the connaitre sense. The correct form of knowing will keep one humble regarding the adequacy of other points of entree to provide a living knowledge of God.
I donât believe the Bible anywhere says âgo thee forth now and be insufferable toward all who differ from the beliefs which your entry point in the Bible have illuminated in you. Berate them for their false beliefs and know thee they are no child of Godâ. If one did find such verses in the Bible they would no doubt have been spoken by the serpent which promoted the apple to Eve.
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An interesting line of thought. We are currently reading a book titled Practicing Christian Doctrine by Beth Jones, and she goes into the doctrine of the Trinity, with much that mindset. It is good as far as it goes, but makes you wonder that if God is infinite, perhaps he has only revealed a small part of his being to us due to our puny limitations. There are even hints that Godâs wisdom is personified in him. so, I tend to qualify your statement by adding he has revealed that part of his eternal and infinite self that relates to us.
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Enough to reveal how worthy he is to be worshipped
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You have probably seen me write this before, but I like saying it anyhow. Godâs triune nature is one of those things that fundamentally sets him apart from us. This otherness is related to his holiness and the worship he is due. As a triune being, he would would not neccesarily experience loneliness. Whereas as if we were God, the loneliness would be inescapable and unbearable.
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There is nothing in the Bible about any triune nature of God. When this topic came up in my church discussing their articles of faith, I was quick to point this out. But also observed that there was a good reason to use this term in the articles of faith to make it clear that this denomination (and myself also for that matter) is not at all interested in anyone who wants to add to the three persons of God we know from scripture. In any case, we can change this word âtriuneâ to âmulti-personalâ or âtrans-personalâ nature and heymikes3âs point still follows.
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I really think that is to deliberately misrepresent what the Trinity means or understands. It would make God schitzophrenic.
God cannot be lonely with all of creation to interact with. He is more likely to be over-burdened as Bruce Almighty implied.
But only to those who âseeâ. The whole point is that God is a God of faith rather than an obvious one
The need to worship is a very human characteristic usually based on awe and fear.
Wanting to be worshipped would be vanity?
I see worship as a response rather than an obligation
Richard
I would advise you to pay close attention to the great history of orthodox thinking on the doctrine of the Trinity. Whatever term you prefer, it would have to account for the Bibleâs teaching of three persons with one nature. Or similarly with Jesus, one person having two natures.
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This reminds me of a story I heard about a little boy who was thinking about what a good idea it would be to clean the kitchen. But then his mother walks in and tells him to clean the kitchen. Now the boy no longer thought it was a good idea to clean the kitchen.
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Although I agree that no one like to be told to do something, I think it is more a case of expectation. Do we worship God for being God? or do we worship Him because He is worthy? And is that worthiness due to His being or His actions? I would say that it is the caring Nature of God that inspires worship rather than HIs might and power.
Richard
PS the crunch being those who do not see or identify that love, for whatever reason.
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