This used to bother me. However after listening to Pete Enns I accept that the NT writers were just making arguments based on what they knew or thought they knew at that time.
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Which I agree with but Jesus and an NT writer is not the same in my eyes. Paul knew enough to carefully distinguish his commands from the Lord’s in Corinthians 7. We should all also know to do the same. I put my thoughts on it together here.
The human Jesus who was not omniscient may have accepted the account was historical ,or Jesus may have simply adopted the convention of the time….
Disagreeing with Jesus is not something those of us who call Him Lord and Savior should probably
ever do lightly….
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Well, thanks for nothing. That rang a bell and sent me down a long rabbit hole. It was fascinating, tho. Long story short, it’s a 2 cm folded lead tablet found by an “archaeologist” from Katy, Texas, who works for Associates for Biblical Research, a fundamentalist Christian apologetics ministry that believes in YEC and the literal history of the OT. Scott Stripling didn’t excavate it. No, he found it sifting through the discarded leftovers of an illegal 1980s excavation at Mt. Ebal, which claimed it to be the site of Joshua’s altar. Thus, the connection to Joshua and the Exodus.
If anyone else cares to follow my breadcrumbs down that rabbit hole, here ya go:
(Extensive thread on the chronology & press coverage)
https://twitter.com/MichaelDPress/status/1507083360350449670
This reminds me so much of the strictures put on students at a certain seminary that was in the same city as a Roman Catholic university, a private university, and a public university. Even though there were a number of excellent courses relevant to Old Testament and New Testament studies that students could have gotten credit for, they were discouraged from doing so and those who did tended to be regarded with suspicion.
And yet for those students brave enough to defy the preferences much of the Old Testament came alive in ways that just didn’t happen at the seminary.
I just read your presentation and it was very good.
I felt the same as the person that your response was related to. The dominoes were falling for me in the same way.
Thank you.
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John has history in it for sure but it’s not history. It’s a mix of things. You are also are assuming both John and Mark are historical here. John places the temple cleansing at the beginning of Jesus’s ministry. Why couldn’t he move that saying around as well? I am not saying he did but Gospel authors felt free to rearrange material in their sources.
Not sure why you’re asking me. I have no actual opinion on the matter. My only “un-orthodox” view of John is that it wasn’t written by the Apostle but by a very young man with the same name who lived in Jerusalem.
I think that point was made in the third century.
Well I guess all I can say is that I don’t have time to respond because I’m going to my dead grandfather’s birthday today. He’s turning 112 and that’s the longest anyone in my family has lived. Plus i want to meet my uncle who’s the 8th out of 7 kids and he’s turning 113 today.
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Today is All Saint’s Day! What an auspicious day to have a birthday party.
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May we all be as spry as your dead grandfather once we turn 112!
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Darrell, when I first started a more intentional examination of my faith, apologetics seemed easily accessible and almost universal, probably because I began from a “proof text” perspective. “Is God real? Can the Bible be believed?” Over time, nothing seemed resolved. E.g., God either created the earth in 6 24 hour days or he didn’t. God either started, and occasionally adjusted the evolutionary process or he didn’t.
My efforts produced more fruit when I left apologetics and proof text reading behind, not because anyone was being less than truthful, but because the end of an apologetics/proof text journey is…the end. Our faith journeys don’t end and we can’t see clearly enough in this physical life to be certain of anything.
My journey changed as chronic, catastrophic medical conditions forced me into the “Why” questions. Apologetics are not designed to address that. The first book that grabbed my attention was “Simply Jesus” by N.T. Wright. Since then, I’ve read his four major academic works and many of his general audience books. I’ve also ventured into other authors with academic credentials who write for general audiences. Currently, I’m reading John Walton’s work “Wisdom for Faithful Reading.” John is a professor emeritus of Old Testament from Wheaton College. An example of his approach is the creation story in Genesis. He urges us to not put our own, or current societal take on it, but try to understand, if possible, the intent the author’s spirit led writing for that group of people in that time in that geographic context. Apologists from the fundamentalist or evolutionary camps are concerned with the mechanics, the how of the creation story. The original author, whoever he is, and after however many generations of oral history were transferred to successive generations, is concerned with God’s plans and purposes in Genesis and, for that matter, in all the books of the Old Testament. On Day 1, God is ordering - creating order - to the cycle of time: daylight, darkness, daylight, darkness. Each of the six days, in pairs (1-4, 2-5, 3-6) lead to the seventh day where God “rests…” upon his throne, as easily inferred from almost every other OT passage where God rests upon his throne to rule his creation. The purpose of the creation story is to reveal to the target audience of the time God’s purposes and plans, which is the purpose of every book in the OT.
As for Pete Ends, his “God Ordained” comment strictly is tongue in cheek.
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I do love Pete. I hadn’t even heard of him before I started working here, but he has great stuff. Although I just read his new book, Curveball. And while it is good content, esp for sci/faith stuff…I don’t like baseball much and the extended metaphor was…a lot for me 
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I’ve only read some transcripts of his podcasts but I’m with you where baseball is concerned. Right up there with watching paint dry.
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Only baseball game I watched this year was last night, as I had to in order to keep my man card. At least Texas still has one winning champion team. I’ll have to read Curveball.
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Completely understandable. I’ve mostly sworn off watching Concussion Ball but after the local team won its first several games this year I watched a couple. I find it much more intrinsically satisfying because of all the strategy. Fortunately they went on to lose a few which restored more hours in my week. Our local basketball team is the last one I follow but even there I’m only in it for the good times. When the show loses my interest I jump right down off of that bandwagon.
I’m falling way behind then lol. I’ve not watched a single game of any sport in the last decade other than a 10 minute video of arm wrestling once. Though I do go to a handful of my nieces softball practices and games. I guess also at some point in the last year or two I watched some Asian volleyball game where my fiancées cousin was a player in it. I’ve never been into sports. Though I enjoy small 5 minute clips of boxing every now and then.
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The only baseball I watch is when there is a spot on something about it on the evening national news, something like someone making a freak catch in the stands or a story about a family.
Whew, that’s not a requirement here. But you have to like Husker volleyball to remain a Nebraskan (not so much football anymore 
…which I never particularly did anyway, heretic that I am ; - ).
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Another recommendation . . . .
I’m seeing excellent books recommended here faster than I could read them!
That and football are two sports I could only get excited about if someone I knew was playing.
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Thanks for asking this question. I have struggled with my faith for many years. So much so, I eventually lost it.
Needless to say, it was one of the best things that happened to me. I lost my original narrow evangelical faith and gained a whole new perspective. In fact, I have been awakened and have not looked back since.
Each person’s journey is unique and you may end up in a different place. I would just encourage you that struggling with your faith is part of healthy spiritual growth. If we don’t struggle is probably because we are also not growing or stop asking questions. Healthy faith is one of movement not of stagnation.
Stay curious and stay open.
Blessings.
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