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Yes, Sweden should have protected the old people better.
In almost any situation, it is possible to find things that could have been improved.
At least they did not take the NY governorās approach and force old folks homes to take infected people.
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Well. This news was less than encouraging to me about long term effects. The thing is, we truly have no idea yet what all medium or long term effects this virus will take on peopleās bodies. So I am still strongly for trying to avoid contracting it at all costs, or giving it to others.
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Here was one summary one the persistence of symptoms:
And also:
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The CDC data look different.
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_3.html
These data were updated today ā a drop in Georgia hospitalizations week over week.
Does it matter? If the CDC data shows increased hospitalization, will your change your position on anything?
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I change my views as new facts are available.
And I think facts are important. And I think accuracy is important.
Some people donāt seem to care whether hospitalizations are really up or not. Others donāt seem to care whether there are zero cases in New Zealand or just a very small number. Some donāt seem to care whether the number of confirmed cases is influenced by the number of tests or not. Some people donāt seem to care whether a particular complication of a disease is common or exceedingly rare.
I wasnāt trying to make an accusation. I was asking ā will your views on requiring a mask, for example, change based on facts?
My views are constantly updated, arenāt yours?
So there are a few tricky things about your graph here as to what counts as a hospitalization or not. The CDC graph could still be outdated, or it could be counting things differently. For example, if a patient shows up in the ER and is discharged a few hours later that could count as a hospitalization. thatās why when I reopen this thread I posted a more useful graphic which is inpatient census. It looks like the graph that @glipsnort shared also is plotting the same thing.
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Has your view on the mandatory wearing of masks changed?
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Yes, I have done thousands of graphs over the decades. How the data are used and presented is often a matter of judgment.
So we have the Georgia state data showing increases in Covid hospitalizations while the CDC data show a decrease in Covid hospitalizations.
We need to recognize the uncertainty.
And I always remember: figures donāt lie but liars figure. And people have biases.
Yes ā and Iāll answer questions about how I update my views. Some views I wonāt update based on data ā Iām never going to approve of state-mandated child sacrifice. Other views I will update based on new data, e.g. whether to require seatbelt use. Youāre not answering, though.
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Vance,
Glad you are planning on the mask. My brother and I have been discussing how important humor is in this situation. No one is going to be perfect (some of us are more judgmental, others more inclined to question). We need some grace with each other. Thanks for your discourse. Hope your church does well.
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It is the only way out, but can be achieved through either infection or vaccine. I share your change of heart, in that I was not real,convinced about masks, but changed my attitude when things worsened. If nothing else, they are a visible reminder that we should socially distance in public spaces.
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Hi Vance,
The rapid increase in hospitalizations and deaths in many states, large and small, has helped you appreciate the importance of mandated mask wearing. I thank you for sharing your revised assessment; it is not easy to change oneās opinion, especially in public.
You have been thinking about this subject, clearly, so I would like to mention another point for you to ponder.
With regard to grave infectious diseases like polio, measles, and coronavirus, it is important for those in authority to take preventive measures like mandating vaccines (for polio and measles) and masks (for coronavirus) BEFORE a widespread epidemic makes the mandate indisputable.
Itās like the fable of the guy with a hole in his roof. āItās not raining today, so I donāt need to fix my roof.ā But tomorrow the rain comesā¦
Likewise: āThe coronavirus isnāt exponentially increasing today. Thereās no need for a mask mandate.ā
The really interesting thing is that July crisis in Florida, Texas, Arizona, and South Carolina is the consequence of policies and behaviors in May and June. It didnāt just start this week.
I am just asking you to give some thought to this post. No need to respond unless you feel inclined.
Best,
Chris
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Thatās one of the tough things about public health responses to outbreaks. Doing the right thing will always look in retrospect like you overreacted, and in order to do the right thing with limited information, sometimes you have to overreact. A public health agency that responds perfectly to every outbreak will look like it isnāt doing anything much at ā and may well have its funding cut. Itās a vital, mostly thankless job. Iām grateful to the people who do it.
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And overreacting is possible and can be very costly.
Lockdowns, for example, may or may not be needed but they are certain to have costs.
Sometimes it is prudent to wait and watch first. And those who recommend waiting and watching for more information will be called reckless/foolish/stupid if they are wrong and will be ignored and unrewarded if they are right.
Sometimes it really is better to err on one side over another. I live in the north and school districts always have to weigh the risks and benefits when snow is predicted ā whether to call it off or not. But ultimately, if they call it off and the snow isnāt as bad as it looked, kids will have a day off school (and will make it up later) and some people will be upset and inconvenienced. But if they donāt call it off on a day the snow is worse than expected, people are much more likely to get in accidents and get hurt or die. Just because there are two sides to a decision doesnāt mean those two sides are equal.
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