Personal Freedoms/Choices & Public Health Measures

Faith & Science Conversation
283

I do appreciate your willingness to talk data, Vance.

The population density of Northern Virginia is approximately the same as that of Milwaukee County, but the population is over 3x greater. The urban density in Virginia is higher than that of Wisconsin, which is why the COVID-19 incidence has been higher.

Moreover, Northern Virginia is part of a much larger and even denser population center, Washington, DC, which has had a much higher COVID-19 incidence than almost anywhere else in the country.

The reason I am talking about northern VA is that it is far and away the predominant geographical concentration of COVID-19 in the state, much as NYC is the geographical concentration of COVID-19 in NY state.

So, no, you picked an apples and oranges comparison. Virginia is not a suitable “control” group for Wisconsin, not by a long shot.

You are not an anarchist, since you have acknowledged the legitimacy of many state regulations.

You have been invited many times to give a rationale for why you support governmental regulation by nudity laws, which have a negligible effect on economic activity and mortality, and why you oppose mask regulations, which have a strong positive effect on economic activity and reduced mortality.

Now that you have backed off the slavery comparison, you have been proclaiming that you don’t like masks because they are regulation. But you have never explained why you strongly support governmental regulation of public sartorial state–a regulation that has no effect on economic activity and mortality–but you oppose mask regulations, which portend strong positive effects on economic growth and reduced mortality.

This could explain why some of your interlocutors feel frustrated, after repeated requests for a rationale. At best you have said that you feel differently about some things than others, and different people draw lines differently. While that is true, it is not a helpful statement.

And so the frustration has mounted.

Best,
Chris Falter

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284

But you offered no comparison at all.

You posted Minnesota data with nothing in comparison.

So what you posted had no frame of reference, while I sought to do something better. I chose a state that I know, one in which I was just visiting this week.

Which states do you think should be used for comparison?

I have worked with data for decades. I understand regression analysis and have built models for predictions.

Without having something to compare to Minnesota, you don’t have something that is instructive. Virginia seemed reasonable to me. I welcome your suggestions.

285

I think the frustration has mounted more because people have internal doubts about the efficacy of the shutdown and internal doubts about the erosion of freedoms.

And the advancing of infections resulting in faster moving to herd immunity seems to be something some people have confused with a bad effect, rather than a potential advancing of an ultimate effect (barring a vaccine).

That is evident on the thread about Sweden.

286

I haven’t backed off a viewpoint so well stated by the founding fathers of this country.

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

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It is not necessary that everyone insist on freedom. Many can be free riders. Just as both my wife and I served in the military, all Americans benefit from those willing to serve in uniform.

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287

Thank you for your service.

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289

I think you are very confused about the people you’re talking about.

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290

Could be, but neither of us can read their inner thoughts.

291

Thank you for your service, Vance.

The quote from Jefferson is ironic because he subjugated 600 African-Americans to a “peaceful slavery.” He certainly worked hard to make sure that those 600 African-Americans would never be given the opportunity to enjoy “dangerous freedom.”

I find your comparison of mask regulations to slavery morally repugnant. Weigh in the balance the mild inconvenience of wearing a mask, on one side, versus the bullwhip and the extremely hard labor, sunup to sundown, in Jefferson’s fields for no recompense on the other.

A mask obligation is on the same order of magnitude as an obligation to wear seat belts or the obligation to drive the speed limit. The cruel bullwhip, the selling of children down the river, the separation of husbands and wives, and the 80 hour work-weeks in the blazing sun for no compensation are another matter entirely.

Moreover, the wearing of masks can save hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens’ lives, while the Jefferson estate’s bullwhip and chattel slavery were purely for the enjoyment of Thom and his small family.

Your comparison is morally repugnant.

Best,
Chris

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292

My point was not that masks = slavery. Please minimize the exaggeration of my posts.

My point was that we need to continually guard against the erosion of our freedoms.

Yes, Jefferson’s words have some irony, yet it is dangerous to judge people from another time by today’s mores.

Back to post 268, are you going to offer a control group for Wisconsin? I offered Virginia, which you dismissed but had no alternative.

Are you sure you claim of moral repugnance is not simply a way to avoid real discussion of facts?

293

If you do not mean to say what your posts actually say, you might want to weigh your choice of words and quotes more carefully before you click the “Reply” or “Post” button.

I will try to get a better state-wise comparison by Monday or Tuesday.

Best,
Chris

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294

I’m pretty sure I can read my own inner thoughts.

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295

Well, if you insist on exaggeration, we will deal with it on a case-by-case basis when needed.

Such actions do not enhance your credibility.

If you find a control group better than Virginia for Wisconsin, do present it. I look forward to it. The numbers look comparatively good for Georgia.

296

Nope. It’s actually because arguing with you is frustrating.

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297

Arguing with anyone with whom you don’t agree can be frustrating.

298

For crying out sideways, not long ago you were arguing that we should “unhitch” the Old Testament from the New Testament, and one of your main arguments was the slavery in the OT. So what gives? (Preparing for major spin…)

299

No, you have misremembered my reasons and reasoning. The primary reasons were the commands of Jesus given at the Last Supper and the decisions of the first church council (recorded in Acts 15).

But I have argued that we should not judge the Law of Moses by our modern mores, as the law of Moses may have been part of an incremental improvement from neighboring cultures.

An example I used is that “an eye for an eye” may have been a constraint on those seeking “a life for an eye.”

300

Does anyone know if the cases in Georgia are still lowering despite being open or are the steady? I see conflicting reports online. Seems like it’s been over a month since they opened.

301

Yes, things are going very well in Georgia. See this link, which is updated daily:

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Georgia’s growth in cases is lower than the locked-down Virginia, for example. ‘Every 2 months” is the national average.

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302

But look what you wrote:

Should we follow the Mosaic Law and allow slavery, with the masters allowed to beat slaves, as long as they don’t die?

Exodus 21: When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

Or should people love one another?

303

What is your point, beaglelady?

Let me help you understand this post that you have plucked out of context:

When I try to help a person confused about the applicability of the OT to the modern church, I sometimes ask them questions to show theIr positions are unreasonable.

No, your earlier claim about my view is simply wrong, and it appears you searched for justification for your post about me and failed.

Please do not continue to misrepresent my views and present your fantasies about my positions as fact.