Numinous experiences and God

So I read this excellent blog post by Gene Veith from Patheos:

So I was wondering about counter-arguments. Is there a potential scientific explanation for why we are afraid of the supernatural? My concern is that this fear may be merely an extension of the fear of the unknown.

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Interesting article (though it looks like there is more to it that is no longer available). I guess experience is a very personal thing and so it’s hard to really argue about it, but it does make sense that this fear would be tied in to the fear of the unknown.

For example, If you saw a ghost, you would feel fear and dread. Like C. S. Lewis observed, that fear would not be grounded in natural, physical danger, since no one is primarily scared of what a ghost is going to do to him, but of the mere fact that it is a ghost!

I guess it’s hard to say since I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a ghost, but culturally based fears of “haunted” things seem to be very concerned with physical welfare. Fear of the unknown is a fear of physical danger – at least, I’m not sure what we’d be afraid of if it wasn’t tied in to that pretty strongly.

The most frequent mandate in the Bible is “Don’t be afraid” or one of its several variations – “Be anxious for nothing”, “Fret not”, …

That Father is in control is at the heart of my religious experience, so I cannot identify with this at all, unless you count a plentitude of providences as numinous. They are definitely wonderful. It was providence that convinced Maggie and was certainly at the beginning of her spiritual experience.

My current thoughts are that there are things out there that we get irrationally afraid of, without them being supernatural. I am terrified of moths, even though I know full well that they can’t hurt me

Scientific reason? I don’t think numinous experiences have anything to do with science. If it were just something you could sort into categories it wouldn’t be the numinous. But we’ve all experienced it, especially while growing up. Leastwise that, I think, is what Robert Pirsig would have said in his book Lila*.

I was just reading this passage in chapter nine before turning in last night:

One can imagine how an infant in the womb acquires awareness of simple distinctions such as pressure and sound, and then at birth of acquires more complex ones of light and warmth and hunger. We know these distinctions are pressure and sound and light and warmth and hunger and so on but the baby doesn’t. We could call them stimuli but the baby doesn’t identify them as that. From the baby’s point of view, something, he knows not what, compels attention. This generalized “something”, Whitehead’s “dim apprehension”, is Dynamic Quality. When he is a few months old the baby studies his hand or a rattle, not knowing it is a hand or a rattle, with the same sense of wonder and mystery and excitement created by the …

… and then he refers back to a couple other examples of what he called Dynamic Quality. He contrasts this with Static Quality which is essentially the already familiar qualities of phenomena previously experienced. As babies we live in a world which is filled with the numinous experience which we steadily convert into categories of the familiar. But the point is we all have or at least have had the experience of being in awe at encountering the numinous. Calling the numinous the supernatural seems to me like jumping the gun in converting an entire mode of being into merely a category, an object of Static Quality. The experience of feeling our hackles raised is associated with fear but it is also associated with having all our senses raised in intensity to face the unknown. It needn’t be experienced as fear. Those are the moments I feel most alive.

*With the library closed, I scoured the house for unread books and came across this again. After having devoured Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values. I picked this up long ago at a used book store but forgot all about it.

I can think of a couple of things one could fear besides physical danger. These include psychological distress / danger & spiritual danger.

Of course, being in a human body, physical harm can affect us mentally & mental harm can affect us physically. But even if you subtract any physical repercussions that would come from it, speaking as a person with severe mental illness, psychological distress is extremely scary to me.

Some people think that your panic will subside if you know that you are not going to die or go crazy, as they insist you are therefore in no “danger.” To me, the distress itself is a danger, it is part of the experience that I fear. When I am panicking, I’m not always afraid that I’m going to die or go crazy. Part of what I fear is the panic, & it is already happening to me. It is not necessarily a fear of physical danger. It’s the fear of the psychological torture and trauma itself.

It’s like telling a person who’s about to experience a tremendous amount of pain, or who is currently experiencing excruciating pain that they shouldn’t be having that feeling, and they shouldn’t fear it, either, as it is not going to kill them, drive them crazy or “hurt“ them. It already is hurting them. The fear is manifest.

So, I think that fear of psychological distress or fear of spiritual danger is something that people can be wary and frightened of outside of physical danger.

It is true that some people might fear physical harm, such as from demons or poltergeists. However, beyond that, I don’t think most people are afraid that ghosts are going to physically hurt them unless it triggers a heart attack from fear. My mom always told me that such things couldn’t hurt me, but she is afraid of them.

I will share more of my thoughts on what might be causing such fears in a separate post.

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Thanks for that explanation – you’re right that there is often more to it than just physical – it can be all wrapped up together. That’s probably the case for something like terrorism too – its intent is not just to physically hurt but to impact a large number of people psychologically.

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There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear… 1 John 4:18

It’s not our perfect love! It is our Father’s, if you belong to him, and he only does what is good for both him and us. The most frequent mandate in the Bible is “Don’t be afraid” or one of its several variations: “Fear not!" "Be anxious for nothing…” “Do not be afraid!” “Fret not!” So whenever I catch myself being anxious about ANYTHING, I can go crawl up on Father’s lap even when court is in session in the throne room so to speak, and his strong arms will comfort me and shield me.

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Interesting article.

As for why we are afraid of the supernatural, I’ve always wondered if it had something to do with fear of the unknown. I agree that it’s not necessarily that we’re afraid we’re going to be physically harmed by spirits in this life. However, one can still fear psychological & spiritual attack.

There is fear of not knowing the intentions of whatever spirit one encounters. And there is something disconcerting about how it doesn’t vibe with the commonly accessible reality to which we are accustomed. While some will accept the experience for what it is, nonetheless, others will question their sanity. Believing that you might be going insane or can no longer trust your own brain is frightening.

Yet, I often think that seeing something supernatural should bring comfort, as well. It is potential evidence that there is something after this, and that they and their loved ones will go on.

But maybe be there is the fear of where they will go, how they will feel in that state, and how the spirit is feeling. For example, if you believe you see a distressed spirit trapped in its daily rituals or worse- attached to the place it died- it might worry people that they will be alone, confused, or attached to a traumatic spot, & still distressed after death.

Maybe there is a concern as to whether or not they will be vulnerable to these spirits after death. There can also be the fear that the spirits might cause you psychological or spiritual harm in the moment.

Maybe looking at something like this, such as a ghost, makes one think about how they might one day be in that state themselves. For example, hearing of someone else’s death can invoke fear in a person of their own inevitable death or that of those close to them. Seeing ghosts is a reminder that you & those you love are mortal.

I’ve had a few strange experiences. In two of them that I remember as a child, I was afraid because I was uncertain as to whether or not the entity had ill intensions. I think also being unfamiliar with it & taught it shouldn’t exist might’ve played a role. We are also taught to fear these things through horror movies and scary stories.

I remember another very bizarre experience. People have often asked me if it was a dream. I don’t think that it was. However, given the bizarreness of it, perhaps they’re right. In that moment, for a bit, it was like I was compelled to go towards it, and was drawn to it. I did not feel afraid. I felt almost hypnotized. But then absolute panic kicked in. It’s like whatever spell was on me slipped away. At that point, I didn’t quite know what it was that I was observing, but I knew that it was very bizarre.

I also knew that more of it was about to be revealed to me. That was the moment when I felt fear. I believe that was partly due to the unknown, as I did not know what was coming my way. At that point, I was no longer hypnotized & fled, though I was temporarily paralyzed by fear. So, maybe it was a dream. People experience paralysis in dreams, after all. But it seemed very real to me.

I have seen other unexplainable things that did not frighten me. I think it depends on many variables including the person. There are some people who do not seem frightened by supernatural experiences, whereas others are unnerved or terrified. Perhaps being told that it shouldn’t happen lends itself to creating fear.

I think that increased familiarity with something can make it less scary for people who are experiencing such things. My cousin says that she sees and hears spirits so much that it doesn’t scare her. It’s just normal to her. She said she didn’t even pay attention to it.

I have also heard of people who felt they connected with God. If I recall correctly, those people expressed things like love, relief or peace if forgiven, a sense of awe, sometimes shame for past behavior, but not fear that I can recall.

Thank you for this quote (1 John 4:18). I enjoy having reassuring quotes from the Bible that I can use as mantras when I am panicking. I had forgotten about this one, so I hadn’t used it. I will try to remember to meditate on it.

It does seem that God does not want us to be afraid, though I assume we are meant to fear certain things. Doesn’t the Bible speak of fear of the Lord? Or do you take that to mean respect?

It my understanding that this world is polluted by Satan, and with it comes fear, pain, death, etc. I am not saved, so perhaps that is part of the reason why I cannot choose to escape all of my fears. However, I personally think that mental illness can also be physical.

I do pray, & I find it comforting. However, I am still severely mentally ill. The saved people I know still experience fear, though not always as much as sinners, as the saved find comfort in God.

I personally find that when certain people pray for me, it relieves my panic more than it does when I pray for myself. Perhaps this is because I am not saved. I’m confused as I have heard conflicting things about whether or not God hears or responds to the prayers of sinners.

It is said that God has not given us a spirit of fear. Therefore, I do believe that God wishes to assuage certain fears, or to save us, & with that, remove our fear & give us peace. Still, I think part of the quotes you mention are because the numinous does invoke fear in people. Perhaps this is because we are sinners, because we are separated from God or because the devil is in the world, we are fallen, & therefore we feel unsafe.

Yet, it seems the numinous makes people fearful in the Bible at times. It is said when people encounter angels that they are told to fear not. Presumably, this is because the power or unfamiliarity of what they are seeing could frighten them. The angels want them to know that they mean them no harm. This helps remove the fear of ill intention.

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You’re welcome. It’s interesting to hear your thoughts, as well. I think that terrorism is a meaningful comparison in this case. Good analogy.

The Fatherhood of God and me as his adopted child are very important realities to me. Maybe be you’ve seen this before, about my losing a kidney?: Nephrectomy.

Being afraid as a more chronic condition is what happens after the immediate flight or flight response wears off. Sure, if a skunk threateningly raises its tail, flight is a good thing to do, before it spins around and fires on you! ; - ) As a Christian, fearing God definitely has to do with respect, but maybe with awe as well? Non-Christians have reason to be afraid (and in anticipation, let me head off any universalists’ objections with ‘damnationist’ vocabulary – I’m okay with conditionalism, aka annihilationism, not having studied it in any depth).

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There is only a scientific explanation of the commonplace sense of the numinous. Everybody experiences numinosity, drunk, stoned and sober. Why try and explain it any other way than naturally?

Maggie had objective evidence resulting in the numinous. So did Phil Yancey and George Müller.