Nobody can be certain about what will be in 300 yrs as we are not yet there so why base your views and solutions or arguments regarding current concerns on a future you cannot live? In the 80s oil was predicted to be running out fast for example but new reserves are still being discovered - no argument for or against fossil fuels btw - and now there are newer energy technologies more accessible than 50 yrs ago. Science is still learning how to address environmental issues and still learning about the universe. Room is available and applauded for such technology or breakthrough that benefits society and the planet. Looking forward should mean taking account of how far we have come surely recognizing achievements while assessing problems and potential solutions. We are not still using technology from the 17th century! There is a strong call across cultures for solutions to current issues re. ecology, energy and the environment. That is a mandate for change and maybe even betterment. Hope is not lost for the future as long as we keep searching for solutions and development of new technologies continue.
Hi, @T_aquaticus. An octopus is the only creature that can maybe be understood to possess anything close to mind body independence. I cannot cut off my hand and expect it to without pause or hindrance continue to dance its severed fingers to any orchestration of thought. But the octopus can lose an arm and both the severed arm and the octopus go on. We feel and this guides reason and informs our understanding of the environment; an interconnection supported by millions of nerves and neurons in our body and brain. One part cannot sever or claim supremacy over the other function without losing a full appreciation and understanding of life and who we are in ourselves; within society; and in relation to the external environment. The Bible states that the whole body functions together as one. When one part suffers the rest feel it. The eye is incomplete without the hand or foot. Without the senses, pain is merely an abstraction that can be ignored. Without feeling we are less than human. Without feeling there can be no morality, no love.
Hi @andrewt316:, @Klax (Martin), @T_aquaticus, @JonathanGunnellCTA, @mitchellmckain (Mitchell), @jstump (James) in the interests of opening out the conversation:
Somebody once said don’t let your imagination be limited by what your eyes can see. Human perception alone cannot read the vast workings of nature without certain technological assistance to help see and hear what is invisible to the human senses. The human animal is assisted to see and listen to unseen worlds on Earth and across the skies, from the deep seas to the sound of the stars, with the help of technology.
Engineers have been learning to harness and mimic what nature can do for hundreds of years if not centuries. The invisible reality that exists beyond human perception is still being investigated by science and it is this outward questioning and searching that shows humanity is limited by design. Human animals are learning from nature by developing resources or technologies that harness or mimic the special abilities of some other animals. Certain animal characteristics that are normally beyond human ability or even perception, when copied and engineered into new technologies, it could be argued are enhancing the human experience already. Bring on transhumanism if its new technologies can offer improvements to persons who are impaired physically; or if transhumanist technology can help to address environmental concerns, fantastic; and if implementing technology derived from observations in nature could help to prevent some diseases; it’s all good right?. If longevity can be improved that too can be good potentially. Methuselah was 1000 yrs old according to the Bible; Jesus is within that order so it is also stated. No need to panic about moral degradation with an increasing lifespan if in Christ there is no corruption but “abundancy of life”.
But the transhumanist project if merely concerned with physical supremacy or the quest for the fictional eternal elixir, is at grave risk of falling to the same forces that have destabilized colonial empire and ravaged the planet’s natural resources fòr short-sighted self interest. Imminent extinction is not a certainty in 300 years or anytime if in the face of threat, or imbalance nature can recover. The Covid 19 pandemic has meant a 25% drop in CO2 emissions over China. Wildlife is returning to the waterways and canals of Venice in recent days because it is cleaner, after a break from so much human commerce mid C19 measures. And following Chernobyl, some thirty pus years on, now there are wild horses and wolves returning to what was toxic land for a long time.
Being limited in knowledge, perception and by design somehow challenges existing boundaries and pushes humans towards new measures and endeavours. “New discoveries are born on the brink”. Why not transhumanism within an ethical framework? Why not seek answers beyond human limitations and seek out to know the as yet undiscovered species and invisible worlds on Earth or within the universe that exist as yet beyond human perception? Why not use transhumanist technologies to help address plagues or environmental challenges, if that could be a possibility?
If there is a God and an invisible spiritual world beyond sight and hearing it should not come as a surprise as there are many life worlds even on Earth that humans cannot perceive without assistance?
Why not God? Why not use every means possible to seek out if there is a God, what does that look like and mean?
Hi Martin@Klax. You wrote, "Human nature [can]… “only be confessed and addressed”. I like that.
Who should confession be made to and why does that matter? How can human nature be addressed? Please explain further.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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To each other as we walk naked together. It matters because the most toxic substance on Earth is [hidden] shame.
Transparency @Klax is important I agree and honest communication helps to facilitate and nurture good interactions between each other. Can hidden shame be expunged by confession alone? How does that work?
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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Not in my experience, no. It will always come back. We have to let it and be mindful and cognitive about it with our Friend, Father, Counsellor, Brother.
[We don’t have to be explicit to each other, to the world about it. The world is not safe. But we must be as explicit as we daren’t before God. Forensically objectively emotionally levelly so, as well as raving, broken, sobbing : )]
If it comes back @Klax, then is that because we let it haunt us or because we need to let our Friend, Brother, Healer, Father enter our thoughts, feelings, memories and wishes more deeply? Or is something else happening? Each day or time with our Friend, Counsellor, Healer is a new process, a new level, a new start or a continuation of a transformation already in process.
Broken I come, accepted as I am, seen as I am, without flinching away, there is no other precondition than to accept provision is made by our Friend, Father, Counsellor, Brother, Prince of Peace.
No, “[t]he world is not safe”, but our Friend is not tamed by pressures either.
Being vulnerable to and with one another in all honesty, I agree, can help to heal differences, as can actions that aim to address any wrongdoing. But all I hold to is upended when our Friend enters the room.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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@Art, just keep talking, ranting, singing, watching the pain come and go and get distracted by non-trigger art, nature. Walk in the green. It’ll still come of course. Let it. And let it go. Forgive, embrace everyone you’ve ever been. You would any other wounded person.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
69
And there’s this. The greatest TED talk of all time.
Just looked at 1 and 2. Just what I needed, on point.“I’m grateful” I joined here and that you sent me the links @Klax (Martin). Now for the third… a surprise, an exhortation to battle for self-acceptance; for freedom from despair, a reminder that pain levels all, and love heals even more.
The most famous example is the knee reflex. This is entirely controlled by ganglia found next to your spinal column with none of the “thinking” occurring in the brain.
A lot of the discussion comes down to the simple question of what makes us human. For whatever reason, we came to see our genomes as a sacred part of our humanity. Is that a correct view? I don’t know, and perhaps there isn’t such a thing as a correct view, just the view that each of us has.
On a somewhat related note, consider how we view elective steroid use. We tend to think they are cheating or being dishonest in some sense. I sense that people view genetic alteration in the same way. That being said, there are completely valid medical reasons for using steroids, and no one looks down on people who using steroids for a legitimate medical reason. The same would probably apply to genetic alterations where there can be wide acceptance of gene editing to cure disease.
We could also look at peoples’ reactions to GMO foods. This technology holds the promise of growing more food, better food, and safer food, and yet many people are against it. GMO’s can actually reduce pesticide use, as one example. So why are people so vehemently against genetically altered foods? If we get at that answer we may be able to understand what the future of transhumanism may be and how it fits into society.
Hi @T_aquaticus,
Thank you for your reply and sorry for the delayed response; it’s been a tough week, just finding the energy and motivation to carry on research, with the spread of C19, so much grief and so much information overload in the media. Back to the post and your response -
But the important difference between the ganglia in the human knee and the arms of the octopus, as far as mind-body dynamics go, if I understand it correctly, is that the latter are integrated with the octopus brain to both function with its central control system and to also think or operate fully for and by themselves, so much so, that even when severed that’s not a problem, whereas the human knee reflex can only ever do one thing apart from the brain’s command.
Do keep safe and thanks again for your reply.
- Alison
