A lamb and a lion, and more.
I think I should have phrased mg question better. Who told you that the Bible doesn’t need to be interpreted literally? You didn’t tell me a reason you just gave me an example. As I said why is there no indication such as “they said about me (god)” or “they believe I said”. And I do not take it as fact evidence since that verse means no life after death which I don’t want to be true.
The Bible does. Because to do so often leads to absurd conclusions (at least when using ‘literal’ as you and other modern, science-minded people often use it). There is actually a better meaning for the word “literal” that I understand scholars and theologians through history have used: meaning something more like “what does this passage literally teach?” - which is a more robust use of that concept than what we usually caricature it as.
And I do take some (many) parts of scriptures literally - maybe even most of them (in the deeper sense of “literal”). It makes no sense to try to speak of “the Bible” as if it is one monolithic book - either all “literal” or “not”. It’s actually a library. So we can’t really speak of “how should we read the bible” any more than you could insist there is only one way to understand every book in your public library. You need to know what book you are talking about (and probably even - what passage in that book) before we can productively discuss how something should be read.
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I needs a literalist anser
Hello @Rafal,
Welcome!
“The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls…” In 1990/91 I lived in Vienna, Austria, where there was one particular subway station with THOUSANDS of little squares of paper pasted all over the walls. Anyone could, and did, paste their poetry, philosophy, profanity, prophecy or the like to the walls. It was a completely unedited, unfiltered, open-air space for anything anyone wanted to post — much like YouTube is today but with a much tinier audience. Before I even consider, if I have anything of value to say about your state questions, I want to address your unstated question. “Is YouTube a good place to get reliable information about the Christian faith?” My answer is, “Sometimes, but only with great caution and discernment.” Like those thousands of tiny squares all over the subway station in Vienna, you are confronted by millions of videos in YouTube, and none of them vetted by the platform.
Judging from the variety of questions you pose, I don’t think YouTube has done much for you but bring you uncertainty about the Bible’s contents and more worry about your faith in what you understand the Bible to contain.
Please, step away from YouTube. Turn off the computer and go read a Bible for a good chunk of time. Admitedly, some parts will be less helpful. Skip those for now, if you need to . But read a lot, spending more time there than on YouTube. Take notes, even in the margins. Read it for what it says. And then ask yourself how it addresses your questions as you go. You won’t get all the answers you seek right a way, but you will get better ones from the start, than you have been getting on YouTube.
We’ll see you around,
Kendel
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I don’t think so.
Science only exists because of the mathematical space time structure of the physical universe. As a consequence it can only demonstrate things which are a part of that structure. That is certainly not the sort of God or afterlife that I believe in. Any so called god which is a part of the space-time structure is what I would call an alien. And an “afterlife” of that nature is more like what you would find in science fiction novels like “To Where Your Scattered Bodies Go” by Phillip Jose Farmer (made into a TV series called “Riverworld”).
Anyway, this sort of thing is contrary to the very reasons I believe in a God or afterlife and thus would defeat the point of believing for me. It would turn the Bible into a science fiction novel, and I don’t know how well it would compete with my favorites in that genre.
Hi Rafal,
You clearly came to the BioLogos Forum to find help and some resolution to your questions. I read the earlier responses, and I encourage you to pay attention to Mervin Bitikofer regarding the interpretations of the Bible. Personally, my first big project was to realize that The Bible is so unique that ONLY GOD could write it. We can all agree that the Bible is not a science book, but once you realize that He totally inspires it, the science explains how He did what His Word said He did. Hopefully, I can shed some light on the scientific connections between the Bible and God’s Word of truth.
My ground rule question is, If the Bible is true, then how did He do it scientifically? The Nobel laureates provide the well tested and proven foundational answers. Their religious convictions are independent of their scientific achievements so that we can look at science secularly
.
Albert Einstein was working on explaining Lawrentz permutations when he developed his theories of relativity. Einstein’s math teacher Hermann Minkowski explained the relativity theory in a four-dimensional manifold currently known as Minkowski spacetime. Scientific mathematicians have calculated the duration of spacetime back to the beginning at the Initial Singularity, which is well documented in publications like Brittanica or Wikipedia. Nobel laureate Max Planck came to the realization that energy comes in “packets” he identified as Quanta. Quanta is the smallest energy unit that can be scientifically identified in the context leading to “stuff.” The Initial Singularity exponentially expanded in what scientists identify as the Planck epoch (nicknamed the Big Bang), and our universe was born as space opened and time began. Thus, in the first twenty minutes of being, the homogeneous electromagnetic field filled our universe.
At this point, there is a foundational decision for everyone to decide. Do you believe that the Initial Singularity came from the mind and will of the Creator, or do you choose to connect with String theory, black and white holes, or other equally unprovable theories? I chose the Bible because I understand it as the eyewitness account of what the Creator did in creation. John 1: 1-3 explains his role in creation. God’s Word spoke the Initial Singularity into place. Once you accept the absolute continuity and authority of the Creator, you will find that everything else falls into its place.
Then continuing with the electromagnetic field in place, science principles can begin to operate, or as many scientists say, evolve. To me, that means to change and develop from the initial materials. So, scientists and many other Nobel researchers developed the widely accepted *Standard Model of Elementary Particles. James Clerk Maxwell’s work led to the discoveries that established the scientific realization that all Standard Model particles have a wave, particle, and spin characteristic. All particles are scientifically explained as “excitations or disturbances” in the electromagnetic field. So, with this scientific framework, we can understand the Creation as a two-step process initiating in the mind of God and proceeding with the “voiced” instructions of creation by “exciting or disturbing” the electromagnetic field with His Word. Theologically the Latin term *ex nihilo means creation from nothing. I qualify this as the creation from nothing physical, which describes the delivery of the Initial Singularity.*The second step of creation for our physical Universe, in Latin, is called *de novo *creation which means “new beginning.” Here is the key to understanding my scientific view. The Word of the Creator spoken into the electromagnetic field can instruct material things into place. The "Let there be statements " the Creator spoke in Genesis effectively record the fundamental instructions of the creation process. I am confident that ONLY GOD can speak the instructions for creation.
I think a good example of the Language of the Creator is the six-billion letters of code in our DNA. I suspect that my DNA name is written in God’s *Book of Life. I also suspect that the new name written on a white stone in the book of Revelation may refer to my new name written in The Lamb’s Book of Life. Although these ideas are personal speculation, the scientific implication sees God’s Word producing the necessary “excitations or disturbances” for the extremely complex instructions found in DNA /RNA processes with precice quality control limitations. Think about it, there is a DNA copy in the nucleus of almost all of the 30 to 100 trillion cells of your body. ONLY GOD can pronounce our DNA names and we are unique among all humankind.
Rafal, this is a lot to wrap your head around. My only goal is to give a scientific explanation of Creation and show that it is consistent with the Bible. I also encourage you to follow Kendel’s advice to read your Bible carefully. The little book of John explains many strategic principles you need to understand. I cannot make up your mind, but the Holy Spirit can and will help you understand God’s Word. Think on it, and keep looking into His truth.
Blessings,
Bill
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But what about the theological problems, and there are many, such as the fact that Jesus is supposed to be sinless and never lie but he said that all diseases are caused by demons and can be cured by exorcism. Second the problem of there being heaven and hell and evolution, for example who was the first person to have a soul and go to the afterlife. And what about the history and contradictions aspects as well. History does affect the credibility. I also don’t believe in the Holy Spirit anymore, because he never is there, when I beg for his help, when he is supposed to comfort me as the Bible says, absolutely nothing happens.
Interesting claim. Where did Jesus say that?
You don’t believe because you did not get a response? That is one way to handle the problem.
Another way to approach the question is to ask if there is something in my life or attitudes that prevents me from receiving the peace that God would like to give me.
Faith in God is a relationship. We can live in daily and hourly contact with God and learn through our relationship with Him. Trust grows slowly when walking step by step with Him - I’m still learning and my trust is growing although I have been a confessing believer for almost 40 years.
When I live with Him, trust Him and follow His advice, I can experience the peace that is not dependent on circumstances. That has been my experience. I hope that you can experience it too, sooner or later.
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Exodus: what evidence should we expect, archaeologically? Given the more or less continuous occupation of the area, much has been lost to later human activity or erosion, or it may be under modern structures. Except for the Bible itself, the earliest efforts at objective historical reporting that we have from the region is the Babylonian Chronicle. The Egyptian attitude was typical – the only official functions of foreigners are to get defeated in battle, to trade with, or to give tribute. Nobody admitted to getting defeated, nor was there any effort to record interesting events in other places. (No doubt some sort of official annals made note of such things, but monuments and other lasting or public records did not contain such information.) Thus, we cannot expect to have any record of the Exodus from surrounding countries. A smallish band of wandering Israelites would not leave a huge trace, and anything useful that they dropped would probably be grabbed by a later nomad. So we should not expect to see obvious traces all over the Sinai Peninsula. The total number of Israelites is problematic. Although a quick read of an English translation of the censuses commemorated in the title of Numbers suggests a total of rather over a million, plus animals, the translation of the numbers involved has complications. “Thousand” can also mean “group”. The number of firstborn males suggests a rather lower number of people, as does the fact that Jethro only recommended having judges over groups up to a thousand and the ability of what seems to be the entire group to listen to Moses. Also, a line including a million or two people simply wouldn’t fit well in Sinai. So a lower population total seems to be better exegesis. The geographic and cultural setting of the Exodus is the second half of the second millennium BC. The cities mentioned in Egypt only existed in the 1200’s and were later abandoned and forgotten, with remaining usable building supplies taken away. Distinguishing such traces as remain of the wandering Israelites from any of the other passing nomads would be quite difficult; they were linguistically and culturally quite similar to their neighbors. The technology of building the tabernacle, for example, is standard for the day. The ark of the covenant and the tablet inside it would be more distinctive, but Harrison Ford reported significant difficulties in finding it and examining the contents. What about their arrival in Canaan? A superficial reading of Joshua 11 might lead one to expect total devastation of Canaan, but reading the whole book reveals that only Jericho, Ai, and Hazor were destroyed; the remaining population experienced battlefield defeats and maybe a raid on the city (if they didn’t submit like the Gibeonites) but was largely still around. A few cities burned down was not unique for any particular time period. The one distinctive archaeological occurrence was the sudden appearance of a large population in the hill country that seemed to be unusually adverse to idols and to pork, in the second half of the 1200’s. Shortly before 1200 BC, a pharaoh boasted of having wiped out Israel. Allowing for similar rhetoric as in Joshua 11 or the modern sports pages, this is evidence for a people group identified as “Israel”, some of whom lost a battle. Thus, there is reasonable evidence for the Exodus. As a different line of evidence, “We’re a rabble of escaped slaves who wouldn’t listen to God” is not exactly the sort of origin story that tends to get invented.
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Rafal,
- I suspect that you are referring to Matthew 17: 21 or Mark 9:29, on two different occasions where the disciples were powerless. Jesus explained that some kinds of demons are removed only by prayer and fasting.
- You would probably find that the first soul to go to the afterlife is the first name in God’s Book of Life. My best guess is that souls “Created in the Image of God” are accountable to Him.
- The historical “contradictions” may well be the same kind of misinterpretations you noted in your first sentence. Come up with the chapter and verse you question and I will do my best to find the answer.
- The Holy Spirit is very personal and intimate, but He will not be manipulated. Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3 that a spiritual relationship is a prerequisite for interacting with the Holy Spirit. His only commitment to people who do not know Him is to help them to incline their hearts to the Righteousness of God and seek His grace. Spiritual communication requires heartfelt confession and spiritual cleansing at the Throne of Grace. Jesus is the High Priest of God and His Holy Spirit will communicate with you on God’s terms. I recommend that you read the whole little book of John to get a better understanding of the Lord’s program here on Earth.
Personally, in my hour of greatest need, the Holy Spirit “showed up” with “the peace that passes all understanding” so I can assure you that He is very real. My Best, Bill
111K HS
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- So that means you believe in exorcism. I tried it and the exorcist was rude to me and didn’t have enough time for me in the hotel room. He if comes to my house I have to pay $3,000. And Jesus also said you can raise people from the dead and it is said that demons are the causes of all diseases. So has exorcism cured cancer patients, autism, incurable genetic aliments, etc? I didn’t share that link for no reason. In it there are stories of Christians dying from treatable medical conditions. In one instance a 2 year old girl died by choking on a banana. She had signs of life even one hour after she died, the church members only prayed, not performing CPR or calling the medical services. 2. Who are these people they lived much longer than 6,000 years ago, What is the benchmark for a person to have a soul and go into the afterlife. Intelligence but how much? And what happened to all the animals before us, the monkeys. Monkeys and other intelligent species show emotions, they mourn there dead. They have feelings and they love their offspring.
- I should have said it better. The fact that faith healing is not real. If so we don’t need the vaccine. 4. I don’t believe in the Holy Spirit since first of all he only goes to sinless people and you have to be sinless first. If the Holy Spirit is real he can make people sinless and cure depression anxiety and all the other worries.
I don’t understand my question will become a YouTube video? And I don’t trust him, I don’t believe he will give me the answers.
Well there are many problems. The first one is I believed in deliverance ministry and I came to an exorcist to solve my spiritual problem and he didn’t help me. He was also rude to me and said that if it is so bad that he needs to come to my house then I have to pay him $3000. The exorcist died not help me. And these verses show us that many diseases can be cured by exorcism: [MT 4:23-24], [9:32-33], [12:22], [17:14-18] [MK 1:23-26, 32-34], [5:2-16], [9:17-29], [16:9], [LK 11:14][4:33-35], [8:2], [27-36], [9:38-42], [AC 8:7], [16:16-18]. There are just so many contradictions in the Bible. Please, look at the website and it will tell you the problems, and I hope you can solve them. Also, people do not answer me when I tell them this and i suspect this websites perpetrates this as well, but from my own experiences, I know that salvation is by works as well, not faith alone. Trying to live the Christian life is torture. I always was scared for my salvation. I saw the hell testimonies on YouTube. The Bible says if you lie even once, then you not be saved.
I would like to see the trusted websites for your claims.
I would like to say that I believe this peace is psychological, second, you have the trust of God but I can’t understand his book since there are so many problems, and there is no indications that it has to be interpreted differently. And another thing, I would have to be sinless to get the peace from God if it does come from God and is a supernatural peace and not psychological.
I forgot to mention and say this on accident, but unfortunately this website has very little content. I search for specific biblical problems such as “exorcism” and “faith healing” and no content related to that shows up. It only shows mostly as defending evolution and that’s it. And I tried to email this website directly twice and they don’t even care about my fears and concerns.
Topics such as exorcism, NDE, and faith healing are not part of the stated purpose of Biologos, and will probably be addressed only in passing if at all. If interested in content on those subjects, it would more fruitful to look elsewhere. The forum is participant driven and given more latitude, but opinions expressed here are those of individuals and do not represent Biologos. And I state that as an individual, and not a moderator.
That is not to say your concerns are not important and your struggle real, just that this may not be the best venue for those issues. I might be a good idea to discuss your concerns with a pastor you trust, as sometimes too many voices can be be confusing, and YouTube is a zoo.
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When God interacts with us, our brain/mind is involved. I assume that it also involves a response that could be called psychological. Anyhow, it is a deep peace that is not dependent on external conditions. You have to experience it to know what it is really like.
You do not need to be sinless, you need Jesus. Jesus was sinless and traded his sinless life in exchange for our sins. Jesus said that he is the door and the way. If you approach God through Jesus, God will accept you.
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We all need forgiveness!
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