My view of Genesis 1-2

Faith & Science Conversation
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There are two raqiya’s. Day-two mentions the raqiya five times. On this day it means the “spreading atmosphere” raqiya shamayim. Proverbs 8:28 explains this as geysers of the deep that ejected solid clouds. Evidently, the early earth’s atmosphere continues to form as geysers ejected ice-dust around the Earth as volcanic gases also emerged from the geysers. The moon Enceladus is the best way to understand day two. 100 geysers are ejecting ice dust and volcanic gases right now today. The ice around the Earth passively came down as the under surface tehom also passively rent during Noah’s mabbul. See Genesis 7:11).

However, there is another kind of raqiya shamayim, which we find on day four. It is the spreading places in the heavens of the stars. (This is not like the spreading vacuum of space time. Here the Sun, Moon and stars continue to become spreading things, raqiya shamayim).

Job 37:18 "Can you, with Him, spread out the skies, Strong as a molten mirror?

Notice that this sky is not solid, since it continues to spread out. Here we find the verb raqa that explains the dust clouds continues to spread out.

The next chapter helps us understand how something could be firm, yet spread out like dust. God asked Job, do you understand the chains that bind the Pleiades. The Pleiades used to be called the Seven Sisters or the Grape Cluster. Then something happened that obscured one of the stars so only six ones are visible to our eyesight. Indeed, the Pleiades is an open cluster where stars eject vast quantities of dust. The dust has obscured the seventh sister, except with telescopes.

He asks Job, can you loose the cords of Orion. Orion is another example of how things that were dense like a bronze mirror spread out into dust clouds. Probably a hundred Herbig Haro stars exist in Orion. They are characterized by two knotted ropes of dust emerging from the star. We can trace how the ropes of gas and dust formed the Orion nebula. What caused dense things in stars to loose their cords and spread out into dust clouds?

Please notice that the literal text of the Bible supports the visible astronomical history in local areas. It also has support in hundreds of billions of distant galaxies that spread out from the unformed matter in their cores. God began to energize (imperfect verbs) unformed matter with dithering light on day one.

The Bible describes the changes we observe in cosmic history. However, fundamental changes are not allowed in the western system. Yet we can see how billions of galaxies became spreading this as the clocks and the orbits accelerate together as galaxies often grew into local growth spirals, like the Milky Way.

Victor

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@godsriddle,

In emulation of Galileo who once had to confront someone’s fantastic explanation… i will say the same thing he said:

“I see invisible mountains on top of the invisible plains that you see.”

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Good could have told them it took a really long time, and not gotten into scientific details, like how natural selection really works. No one’s arguing that Gen. 1-11 is a scientific account. Do the newspaper headlines contain scientific accounts?

And God could easily have not told them it took six days.

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A literal, biblical cosmic history is supported by visible things. It is the scientists who tell ad hoc stories about invisible things. The scientific universe is the greatest myth in history. It is 99% undetectable with any instrument. All the invisible things were contrived mathematically to protect the historical assumption for science itself. The scientific universe is populated by six times as much invisible matter as the natural, visible kind. They try to force galactic orbits to follow their laws. Allegedly, the invisible vacuum of space time adjusts the frequencies of all light. No one has ever seen any space time. An one-time explosion created everything out of a tiny bit space time. Why do scientists obfuscate? They were trained with the idea the Apostle Peter predicted for the last days: that all things remain the same.

The Bible is supported by visible things. We can see how stars shoot out great clouds of dust. Telescopes reveal the visible history of how countless galaxies became spreading things (raqiya) often forming into local, growth spirals. What we see confirms the biblical creation. Elohim continues to speak to the lights in the heavens for them to become spreading things (raqiya). He continues to spread out the plural heavens like a tent to dwell in. He continues to call the host of stars to come out, yet none go missing.

Biblical change is supported by the visible history of the universe, Science was founded on the Thomasian notion that matter is not changing itself as it ages.

Seeing should be believing.

Victor

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Incorrect. It is 0% undetectable as we can actually measure Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

Here’s a nice paper that directly measured Dark Matter for example:

You are of course referring to the 6x amount of Dark Matter to regular Baryonic matter. See above for example. It’s so silly to insist that we are just making stuff up as we go along. A readable summary can be seen here:
http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2006/08/21/dark-matter-exists/

And the Bible even insists that things consist of things unseen (Heb 11:3)

Ok buddy. There are so many different ways we’ve observed and tested General Relativity:

All that we say is that the laws of nature have never changed. At least this is in agreement with reality and the Scriptures, as YEC must pretend the laws of nature have magically changed at different points in history despite no evidence.

Silly, that word is a literal dome, where the ancient hebrews literally thought, well something like this:

Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png640×638 301 KB

Indeed, hence why all of Cosmology is based upon results from telescopes like:
https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/archive/category/cosmology/

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@godsriddle,

Yes, “seeing should be believing”.

But I have no idea what you are seeing. You have thrown into the discussion all sorts of elements and dynamics that I’ve not only never seen, but that I’ve never heard of.

You must have been mentally prepared for such a reaction, right? I think I’ve done as much discussing on these points as I care to.

Have a very pleasant weekend.

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This is the problem with metaphysics. Scientists actually measure things like time and mass, that have no existence in the world of visible reality, using a historical idea. What idea? The one the Apostle Peter predicted for the last days. Peter prophesied that they would obfuscate (lanthano) that the heavens came out long ago (ouranoi ek palai) and the watery geology of the Earth. Why? Because they regard the idea that all things remain the same.

Indeed, the Greeks were unable to invent an empirical science because their grammar did not allow them to imagine that substances do not change with age. The Dominican Friar Thomas, however, wrote in Latin. His theology also centered on the notion that God is changeless, outside of time, seeing the future. Thus he was able to solve the problem that the Greeks could not solve. The new metaphysics became the essence of substance is changeless. From this historical metaphysical assumption rests almost everything scientists measure and mathematicate.

Yet we can see the past, not with synthetic measuring, but with optics in every part of the spectrum. Throughout cosmic history we observe how the properties of matter keep on shifting. The atomic clocks accelerate as the orbits move outwards as matter keeps on taking up more volume. No wonder our continents fit together on a minuscule globe without the modern spreading oceans on a much smaller globe. The Bible repeatedly states that the Earth continues to spread out. It even says this spreading is above the waters. Even local atomic clocks, when compared to their transponded reflections from four spinning spacecraft, also accelerate. Indeed every atom in the universe is observed to accelerate its clock rate throughout cosmic history.

Trying to make creation fit science has brought a great deal of discredit on the Bible. The biblical authors lived in the age when the worldview was change, not science. The ancient could not measure time. Instead they monitored the changes observed in nature and used these to regulate life.

Take the word raqiya as an example of how philosophers have adjusted the text. It is the noun of the verb to spread out, pound out. The noun of “to run” is the runner, the thing that runs. The noun of the verb to spread out is the thing that spreads out. This however, did not fit Greek science so the scholars from Alexandria translated raqiya with the Greek word stereoma. This made the Creation account more scientific, since in Greek science solid crystalline spheres rotated around the Earth supporting the planets and stars. Aristotle’s system required 55 stereoma, with the inner one attached to the pole axle of the Earth. The Latin word for crystalline domes was firmamentum. Tailoring the Bible to fit science produces pure nonsense.

Yet we can see the past to the creation era with telescopes. We observe the raqiya, as billions of galaxies spread out, the stars continuing to come out as the atoms keep shifting their properties. The real laws of the universe are not about synthetic changeless things. They are about how everything keeps changing in an orderly together manner, as Paul explained in Romans 8. Change and science are opposite worldviews.

Victor

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No. That is incorrect. It fits Greek science just fine. You are making this stuff up as you go along.

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Likewise Psalm 19:1 heavily implies that ‘to beat out’ is the correct translation of ‘Raqa’ in this context, by comparing the Raqia to something crafted by a blacksmith.

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Does Jesus tell “ad-hoc” things about the “Unseen”? Try John chapter 3!
Scripture clearly tells of an unseen world. It is called Heaven by some (whichever level you chooses according to your choice of cosmological models).

Ray :sunglasses:

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