My Confessions and Apologies

Faith & Science Conversation
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@Rohan

Perhaps I should explain what he is referring to…

I was not raised Christian but by extreme liberals made very aware of many things wrong with the Christian establishment. Though my parents did not declare themselves atheists (agnostic at most). Nor were they hostile to religion in general. Both were psychology majors and my father was a Maoist communist, black listed even (and very deserving of that, frankly). A child of the sixties, I grew up with peace marches, communes, and the smell of pot in the air.

For my investigation of the truth, I started with science, and made my explorations into philosophy and religion from there. I embraced a great deal of existentialism and pragmatism, and these became my stepping stones to an understanding of God and Christianity. An understanding contrary to the scientific worldview was never even close to an option for me. The question was always whether religion and the Bible had any value in that context. And I don’t think I could ever have seen any truth in Christianity without the explanation of life according to evolution.

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I probably shouldn’t have volunteered you like that, Mitchell. In the interest of full disclosure, @Rohan my wife and I were pretty much like your parents except we didn’t discourage religion so much as entirely ignore it where my stepson was concerned. I can see now that probably wasn’t such a great idea but like a lot of parents I didn’t know enough to do otherwise at the time. I’d probably have deferred to his mom anyway but I would have talked to him more if I had it to do over again. From the point of view of people with an unsatisfactory religious orientation, it just seems like a non-issue, especially if you live in an area where religion isn’t very visible. Anyhow sorry you weren’t provided a better start but good for you for following your heart. Always the best policy.

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@Rohan, This is awesome advice from Klax (Martin).

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Hey Rohan - great to meet you and thanks for being so real.

I suffered a crisis of faith a few years ago and it definitely caused me to be more aggressive and mean and judgemental than I should have been because I was afraid that if some of my beliefs were wrong I was somehow bad or unworthy. This I see in hindsight to be unwise since I am called to serve and love others as best I can - not have the right opinion.

I think the story of Doubting Thomas can be helpful here. Thomas didn’t believe in something he couldn’t believe in, and while it wasn’t the best, Jesus doesn’t punish him or cast him out, he gives Thomas what he needs to alleviate his doubts. Thomas’ doubts opened up the way for Jesus to reveal the true miraculous nature of his resurrection. I would be open to the idea that your doubts will create a similar opportunity to glorify God.

As a Christian you are called to love your neighbor as yourself, and by extension that means that we must treat ourselves with the love that God has for us. Jesus’ healings and his desire for the well being of sinners are a key part of his ministry. Since we’re called to imitate Jesus your first responsibility is to forgive and love yourself just as you are, and to recognize that God cares more about loving you than He does about you believing the right things.

I would also recommend Keith Ward who made a good point - our earliest Church documents are the letters of Paul which are all about different churches doing very different things. If difference is in the essence of our church it means it is very OK to not be sure about things or disagree with others in the faith.

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Meh, not so much. Human hearts can be and more than that, are very deceptive. Putin is following his heart and his drummer, right?
 

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

[Blessed is the one who] …speaks truth IN his heart.
Psalm 15:2

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Yes, for a minute I wondered if you were also a teen!
I remembered that couldn’t be, though. Thanks for your unique contribution.

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Maybe you just need more practice? :face_with_monocle:

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Thanks for your openness, Rohan. I am OEC and that is a position that many followers of Jesus take. It IS a controversial subject with many, though. The YEC issue has political and sometimes regional overtones at times. But “how” God created the Universe has nothing to do with the fact that He did it. As others have said — or should have, if they haven’t --God would have had to give Moses a crash course in plate tectonics, genetics, and the curious activities of black holes …but He just kept it simple and freed them from slavery, gave them the Ten Commandments (and more( instead)…Big subject but happy to hear from you.

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Do u believe that the days were ages?

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Please do not become stressed over all the competing creation narratives that are out there vying for your attention or beliefs. For me, the creation story is summed up in the first four words of the scripture, “In the beginning God”. How creation occurred is secondary to my belief that it was the work of God, and he chose man to be the recipient of his unconditional love. We are beloved by God because, as the scriptures tell us, “God is Love”.
Let this the guiding principle of your faith walk. My prayers are with you as you continue to grow in Gods love.

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Hello Rohan. Thanks for the question. You and I live on opposite sides of the world. I was actually just reading and appreciating Larry Huffmann’s remarks which, I think, sum everything up. “In the beginning, God…”

I read another commentator who noted that in Genesis 1:1, after the phrase “In the beginning” there is “a disjunctive accent on the last syllable…which stops the reader and forces him to ponder the nature of the beginning” —and another commentator who noted that this phrase is actually “a statement of praise” …

And so, with the first four words of Genesis (in English, at least, there are four)—“In the beginning, God—” we already have a lot of things to think about… So Hoffman is right.

As for what those “days” were… periods of time, yes possibly…poetic terms for something? maybe…Augustine wondered how there could be vegetation on the third day if no sun and stars, etc., till the fourth day. ALWAYS a good question …I believe some (YECs only? or others) assert that there was some sort of general light everywhere before all got scooped up into stars on Day 4…

Well… possibly. But what sort of vague ethereal “everywhere” sort of light are we talking about?

Rather than supposing that these days follow some known order of events – that is, that light existed before plants etc – I think there may be something to the assertion that this account of beginnings/creation was a rebuttal to the religions or creation philosophies of several millennia ago. That is, rebuttals to the polytheism of other creation accounts…

And in that case, insisting on “days” as literal days may be irrelevant.

So yes, they could be periods of time…ages, not so certain, but some might say that.

I am no scientist, just an interested reader who puzzles about such things, as you do!

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40 posts were split to a new topic: Is evolution a fraud?

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Hi Rohan,

It’s great to see a fellow teen on a forum that discusses topics too deep for most adults to bother about. I also sympathise with your conflict with your parents. If you look at my post history you will realise there are some similarities between us. All the best in navigating this mysterious but beautiful world.

Bertrand

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Glad to have you here Rohan.I wont be of much help to your questions but glad having you here . Depression gets better . Trust me on this one . Much love buddy!!

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Thank you for you honesty and maturity beyond your years. Continue to love yourself as the Creator loves you…unconditionally. Your “disorder” is your own “order”. Embrace it and continue to make the best decisions for yourself according to your own light and understanding. Continue to seek counsel…receive the positive and disregard the negative. I suggest
you make your own rules for your life in accordance with the Spirit of God within-above-under-around you. And…particularly do not become embroiled in much of the foolishness of Evangelical Christianity that denies science, and hold the belief that the Bible contains the “Very Words of God”. It does not.

It is a gathered collection of ancient documents telling the story of Judaism/OT and how the ancient Jews understood and interacted with and followed their God…who they identified as the “One True God”. It is the words of humans/men and women. Shared from memory…written down…passed down through history. And the NT documents have a similar but different history. “Study to show thyself approved unto God”. You have years ahead of you…or not. Cherish each day as though it is your last.

And do not make the mistake of believing Certainty = Faith. It does not. And that can be a more complicated discussion for later times.

Place your trust in the Person, Spirit, Words, and works/examples of Messiah Yeshua…a Jew. Not a Christian…Never a Christian. God is with you. Rejoice and walk in that promise.

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The young boy is 12. Take a breath.

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? There needs to be an emoji for scratching my head. That post was 7 days ago, four relatively short paragraphs, and I’ve actually been breathing since then. Keep up.

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Welcome @Rohan! Take your time to question, process, allow time to not be sure, and it’s ok if you do things differently :slight_smile: I second finding a counselor or mentor to talk with, since reading text can feel negative or pushy when you don’t see the person speaking. You are very brave to be quite vulnerable and open, thank you for sharing!

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Thanks for helping me out. I realized many are confused about me, so I posted this so that way I don’t seem like I’m someone that I’m not

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