Musing On G K Chesterton

It’s a great collection. Standouts (to me) also include “A Piece of Chalk”, “The Twelve Men”, “On Lying in Bed”, “What I Found in My Pocket”, and “The Diabolist”.

Since most of GKC’s corpus is in the public domain, free ebooks are easy to find. Well-formatted free ebooks unfortunately are less common. You can get a large number of lovingly crafted Chesterton ebooks in various formats from the MobileRead Forums. I think that link should take you to approximately the right point in a search, but if not you should be able to find them by wandering. A lady by the name of Patricia Clark (RIP) is responsible for most of them. They are generally nicely formatted with working tables of content. They’re an excellent cache of GKC loot.

3 Likes

Thanks for all these referrals - I just now finished “The Wind and the Trees” and found it to be a wonderful thought-provoking start to my day.

I do have on my Kindle reader the “G.K.C. Collection” which I do believe was completely free (or extremely inexpensive if it wasn’t). It is nicely formatted. Added: I see that it currently costs $1.99 which I consider free considering the content!

In a different vein of thought here, I’ve been recently struck by how extensive the collection of “father figures” is for C.S. Lewis - almost to the point where I want to ask “will the real spiritual father of Lewis please stand up?” But I see that Chesterton numbers among those that Lewis considered his mentor. … along with so many others apparently … Tolkien, George Macdonald, Owen Barfield … who am I leaving out? Probably @Daniel_Fisher could weigh in to correct or add. But it reinforces to me not so much how thinly spread Lewis’ influences were, but more apparently: how richly spread. And how expensive (and subsequently rewarding) one soul can be in terms of Spirit-utilized movers and shakers on his life. And what a legacy to follow then!

3 Likes

Wow, that’s quite the motherlode! Since, as you say, it’s nicely formatted, it’s well worth the $2 to save the time downloading free editions. Just eyeballing it, I think it’s prit’near all of his published volumes. Now if they just added the 5,000 or so newspaper and magazine columns he wrote…

3 Likes

On more careful inspection, there are a number of titles missing. Mostly later ones… Perhaps not quite in the public domain yet. The most significant of these probably being the Autobiography, published the year he died (1936). I believe it was his last book as well.

He wrote my favorite opening paragraph from any autobiography I’ve read:

Bowing down in blind credulity, as is my custom, before mere authority and the tradition of the elders, superstitiously swallowing a story I could not test at the time by experiment or private judgment, I am firmly of opinion that I was born on the 29th of May, 1874, on Campden Hill, Kensington; and baptised according to the formularies of the Church of England in the little church of St. George opposite the large Waterworks Tower that dominated that ridge. I do not allege any significance in the relation of the two buildings; and I indignantly deny that the church was chosen because it needed the whole water-power of West London to turn me into a Christian.

The church is still there, with a baptismal font that was most likely the one used for GKC. My parents had planned a trip to London and were going to be staying within easy walking distance of the spot when COVID-19 shut that plan down.

EDIT: That volume is also missing The Outline of Sanity, which I think is essential reading for his views on economics and distributism.

2 Likes

“Truth, of course, must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for we have made fiction to suit ourselves.”

― G.K. Chesterton, Heretics

4 Likes

The human race, according to religion, fell once, and in falling gained knowledge of good and of evil. Now we have fallen a second time, and only the knowledge of evil remains to us.

-G.K. Chesterton, Heretics

2 Likes

Angels fly because they take themselves lightly.

Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese.

The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.

–GK Chesterton

3 Likes

One of my all-time favorite quotes belongs to Chesterton: “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”

1 Like

These are great quotes, of course, but they’re well-known ones. I have a few that are a bit more obscure, but relevant to our times…

On elections:

I have myself, for instance, been sternly rebuked of late for saying that what I wanted was not votes, but democracy. People spoke as if this were some sort of awful apostasy from the Liberal Position; whereas, it is a humble remark of exactly the same sort as saying that I want, not the Brighton express, but Brighton; not the Calais boat, but Calais; not a Polar Expedition, but the North Pole. The test of a democracy is not whether the people vote, but whether the people rule… Votes may be the most convenient way of achieving this effect; but votes are quite useless if they do not achieve it. And sometimes they do not. - Illustrated London News. (Oct. 2, 1909)

On politics:

“THE whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes being corrected.” — Illustrated London News, 4/19/24

On the role of science:

In these days we are accused of attacking science because we want it to be scientific. Surely there is not any undue disrespect to our doctor in saying that he is our doctor, not our priest or our wife or ourself. It is not the business of the doctor to say that we must go to a watering-place; it is his affair to say that certain results of health will follow if we do go to a watering-place. After that, obviously, it is for us to judge. Physical science is like simple addition; it is either infallible or it is false. To mix science up with philosophy is only to produce a philosophy that has lost all its ideal value and a science that has lost all its practical value. I want my private physician to tell me whether this or that food will kill me. It is for my private philosopher to tell me whether I ought to be killed. - All Things Considered

On history:

“I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.” – Illustrated London News, 6-3-22

On gratitude:

The aim of life is appreciation; there is no sense in not appreciating things; and there is no sense in having more of them if you have less appreciation of them." – Autobiography, 1936

2 Likes

That is a good example; yet, it’s another where we can misunderstand Chesterton, I think. The fundamentalist, for example, could read what Chesterton did not imply: All those who reject Christianity do so because they rebel against God, because his way is difficult. In contrast, I think in context to “Orthodoxy,” he’s only talking about whether people find it “fulfilling” or not, and responds, “that’s not the point–truth is not supposed to fulfil your wants–it’s something you need to fit yourself to follow.”

Another, similarly potentially abused quote is, “If there were no God, there were be no atheists.” On the face of this, he implies that atheists rebel against a God they know, so they are lying about His existence. Yet, that’s not at all what he’s implying. I don’t believe in Ahura Mazda of Zoroastrianism, yet that doesn’t mean that he exists. I would have to go back to his context, which escapes me now (maybe you or @Ron_anon can help me here) In context, he has an incisive, humorous wit. Thanks.

1 Like

I’m not sure I have the original piece that quote is from, but it’s pretty widely quoted. I’ve read better Chesterton scholars than I suggest that what Chesterton means in the piece is that atheism isn’t a thing itself, but is simply a negation of something else. God is the thing of which atheism is the negation, so without the concept of God atheism has no point. So an atheist for whom atheism is an important part of his identity, has an identity formed by something he doesn’t even believe is real.

1 Like

Thanks. So, if I understand, then that would imply that the person he’s talking to is rejecting someone for the sake of rejecting him/her (freedom, etc). I’m not sure I would really track with Chesterton here–it would be quite a generalization to think that all those who reject the belief in God do it only for selfish reasons, knowing he’s existent. In fact, I can’t really believe anyone does that. Most, I think, question honestly, whether through the problem of evil, or other questions. (George Macdonald noted, “You doubt because you love truth”). I’d hope Chesterton doesn’t limit his empathy in that way (and the good quotes above imply that he doesn’t, especially in his discussion with Shaw).

Randal Rauser does a good discussion of this, regarding atheists, in “Is the Atheist My Neighbor?” and
here Who is the Fool? How Christians misread the Bible to attack atheists - Randal Rauser

I wonder if this is an example of hyperbole, to cast a point, though?
Thanks.

Well, don’t read too much into my stale recollection of what I read someone else say about an essay I hadn’t read. :wink:

The originating essay isn’t terribly common. It’s apparently collected in a book about the Roman Church called Where All Roads Lead, and I found at least the relevant excerpt of it. GKC’s making an apologetic for the Roman Church, and in this part he’s focusing on its complexity:

There is a sense in which the Faith is the simplest of religions; but there is another sense in which it really is by far the most complicated. And what I emphasize here is that, contrary to many modern notions, it owes its victory over modern minds to its complexity and not its simplicity. It owes its most recent revivals to the very fact that it is the one creed that is still not ashamed of being complicated.

In contrast, he says:

We have had during the last few centuries a series of extremely simple religions; each indeed trying to be more simple than the last. And the manifest mark of all these simplifications was, not only that they were finally sterile, but that they were rapidly stale. A man had said the last word about them when he had said the first. Atheism is, I suppose, the supreme example of a simple faith. The man says there is no God; if he really says it in his heart, he is a certain sort of man so designated in Scripture. But anyhow, when he has said it, he has said it; and there seems to be no more to be said. The conversation seems likely to languish. The truth is that the atmosphere of excitement by which the atheist lived was an atmosphere of thrilled and shuddering theism, and not of atheism at all; it was an atmosphere of defiance and not of denial. Irreverence is a very servile parasite of reverence, and has starved with its starving lord. After this first fuss about the merely aesthetic effect of blasphemy, the whole thing vanishes into its own void. If there were no God, there would be no atheists.

I think he means that atheism is so simple, that beyond the denial of God there’s nothing more to it. Without God (or the idea of God) there would be nothing at all.

Not only do I think this is right, I know atheists who would agree. I had an atheist friend who had two pins: one the infamous scarlet “A” that atheists often wear, and another with the logo of a secular humanist organization. He said the “A” represented what he wasn’t (i.e. a believer in God), and the other was for what he was (a humanist). Atheism is just the negation of a belief in God, and it’s nothing you can really build a life or philosophy on. Some people think of themselves primarily as atheists, and they seem to concentrate on denying one thing. In my experience, these people are generally really angry about things religious communities have done to them. But most atheists I’ve been friends with were not of the angry variety, and preferred to identify as humanists, with plenty of positive beliefs. God just really wasn’t a topic of value to them.

Honestly, atheists (and more accurately, humanists) have come a long way since Chesterton’s time. They’ve had a century to improve their branding and message. So that has to be taken into account when reading Chesterton on atheists. That, and… well… as I’ve said before, he does generalize quite a bit. However, by all accounts, his relationships with real atheists were very cordial. I’ve already quoted his mail exchange with Wells. G. B. Shaw delivered a eulogy at his funeral (and GKC wrote a whole book criticizing Shaw!).

Christopher Hitchens was apparently working on a piece on Chesterton when he died. I would have loved to see a debate between Hitchens and Chesterton. I think they’d’ve gotten on famously.

2 Likes

Couple I like from Orthodoxy. I can’t quote all the good ones, otherwise I’d quote the whole book.

It is obvious that tradition is only democracy extended through time.

Fairyland is nothing but the sunny country of common sense.

The madman’s explanation of a thing is always complete, and often
in a purely rational sense satisfactory.

The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad.

There never was anything so perilous or so exciting
as orthodoxy. It was sanity: and to be sane is more dramatic than to
be mad.

For not only (as I understood) had Christianity
the most flaming vices, but it had apparently a mystical talent
for combining vices which seemed inconsistent with each other.
It was attacked on all sides and for all contradictory reasons.

Last one in particular I like, it seems to apply to many of the ideas that seem most important.

From “Heretics”

It is not fashionable to say much nowadays of the advantages of the small community. We are told that we must go in for large empires and large ideas. There is one advantage, however, in the small state, the city, or the village, which only the wilfully blind can overlook. The man who lives in a small community lives in a much larger world. He knows much more of the fierce varieties and uncompromising divergences of men. The reason is obvious. In a large community we can choose our companions. In a small community our companions are chosen for us. Thus in all extensive and highly civilized societies groups come into existence founded upon what is called sympathy, and shut out the real world more sharply than the gates of a monastery. There is nothing really narrow about the clan; the thing which is really narrow is the clique. The men of the clan live together because they all wear the same tartan or are all descended from the same sacred cow; but in their souls, by the divine luck of things, there will always be more colours than in any tartan. But the men of the clique live together because they have the same kind of soul, and their narrowness is a narrowness of spiritual coherence and contentment, like that which exists in hell. A big society exists in order to form cliques. A big society is a society for the promotion of narrowness. It is a machinery for the purpose of guarding the solitary and sensitive individual from all experience of the bitter and bracing human compromises. It is, in the most literal sense of words, a society for the prevention of Christian knowledge.

We can see this change, for instance, in the modern transformation of the thing called a club. When London was smaller, and the parts of London more self-contained and parochial, the club was what it still is in villages, the opposite of what it is now in great cities. Then the club was valued as a place where a man could be sociable. Now the club is valued as a place where a man can be unsociable.

If we were tomorrow morning snowed up in the street in which we live, we should step suddenly into a much larger and much wilder world than we have ever known. And it is the whole effort of the typically modern person to escape from the street in which he lives. First he invents modern hygiene and goes to Margate. Then he invents modern culture and goes to Florence. Then he invents modern imperialism and goes to Timbuctoo. He goes to the fantastic borders of the earth. He pretends to shoot tigers. He almost rides on a camel. And in all this he is still essentially fleeing from the street in which he was born; and of this flight he is always ready with his own explanation. He says he is fleeing from his street because it is dull; he is lying. He is really fleeing from his street because it is a great deal too exciting. It is exciting because it is exacting; it is exacting because it is alive. He can visit Venice because to him the Venetians are only Venetians; the people in his own street are men. He can stare at the Chinese because for him the Chinese are a passive thing to be stared at; if he stares at the old lady in the next garden, she becomes active. He is forced to flee, in short, from the too stimulating society of his equals - of free men, perverse, personal, deliberately different from himself.

From Ch. 14 “On Certain Modern Writers and the Institution of the Family”

1 Like

Pure gold as were many of the others. He reminds me of Twain without the vulgarity.

1 Like

That was the way I read it and why I find no interest in atheism books which delight in poking holes in theism while having no skin in the game themselves.

I sincerely like a lot of Chesterton. His interaction with his opponents on a personal level, for example, is excellent (though his generalizations leave me scratching my head). I also like how Father Brown says he’s horrified at a crime, not because he couldn’t commit it, but because he could. He recognizes that we all have that potential. Another great quote was that the only true spiritual disease was thinking that one was “quite well.” That shows quite great humility!

I have never really understood his argument here, though. He seems to have a strange, paranoid outlook, that the detractors which criticized Christianity in one direction were one and the same as those that claimed it was wrong in the other one. It seems similar to the journalist who says wryly, “Well, I received criticism for my writing piece from both liberal and conservative sides, so I must be right.” Or, for another example, the bell curve of population will of necessity find someone to criticize you from both the right and the left–it’s just the law of probability that if you are not completely off the charts in one direction, you’ll have someone else criticize you on both.

For example, I attend a Baptist church of middle size that has (as all Baptist churches seem to do) split. It’s done it twice–as a result, one left in the 1990s because they thought our church was too liberal. They set up a King James type congregation on the west of town. About 20 years ago, another faction left and set up a gathering just two blocks away, saying our church was too narrow and conservative. We could argue that that means Baptists of our ilk are the right ones–but Presbyterians, Catholics, Muslims, and many others would disagree. They have their own right and left criticisms (as do various atheists, and other even non-religious divisions).

I understand that Chesterton came from a loosely Unitarian background, but found the occult very interesting as a teen. Such loose beginnings seem to result in attraction to orthodoxy to find one’s foot on seemingly solid ground. In contrast, some who have grown up in fundamentalist traditions look hard for some sort of loosening of their shackles. I wonder if this might have influenced his thinking a bit.

Regardless, I appreciate the quotes above, and the fact I don’t understand or possibly disagree with Chesterton in some areas doesn’t mean I don’t learn a great deal from him. He was brilliant. I’d appreciate anyone else correcting me here, too. Thanks.

1 Like

I agree. If the Christian God doesn’t exist, we’re still going to have to find our way forward. There are big questions for which humans seem to need answers: about morality, ethics, our place in the world, and how we come to grips with our own finitude. If we’ve outgrown the Christian answers, then we need new ones to take their place. It’s irresponsible to tear something down without being prepared to replace it with something better. Or, as Chesterton said (in The Thing, 1929):

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”

EDIT to add: The atheists in GKC’s day weren’t just “atheists”. They saw themselves as reformers that had specific positive changes they wanted to implement in their society. GKC thought they were wrongheaded, but he respected that they stood for something and were advancing positive ideas that could be engaged.

2 Likes

According to his examples, they actually did this.

Between the covers
of the same atheistic pamphlet I have found the faith rebuked
for its disunion, “One thinks one thing, and one another,”
and rebuked also for its union, “It is difference of opinion
that prevents the world from going to the dogs.” In the same
conversation a free-thinker, a friend of mine, blamed Christianity
for despising Jews, and then despised it himself for being Jewish.

I think Chesterton’s problem is he tried making sense of all the rebukes of Christianity, but found there were too many contradictory rebukes. At first, he thought this meant Christianity was abnormally evil, ‘supernaturally’ so in his words. But then, he had the thought that if most of the world had gone mad, how would they regard the only sane person? A person goes mad in many different ways, but can only be sane in one way. Thus, the mad people would attack the sane person from many different, and contradictory angles.

1 Like