Murder, Rape, and the Old Testament

Who said you did? Who does? Who can? How?

So the Old Testament is inspired but not the New Testament?

Every single book of the Bible has a human author!

Ah… so there is something wrong with the Bible because it doesn’t say… “workers unite, rise up and kill all those capitalist monsters”… Gotcha

Yeah… so many things have changed. Standards of what is acceptable in sexual behavior, meaning of words, employment, perception of the earth, rules of war, parenting, treatment of prisoners, etc… when did these becomes so self-righteous, absolute, and legalistic?

in other words… these passage in the Bible are things which might be good to bring up when the fundie Xtians start pulling their self-righteous legalism act, but I would hope that others would take a more historically rational approach.

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Strangely, this almost sounds too modern for the Bible. It clearly states that the man is the one to blame, concept that some modern people are struggling with…

It doesn’t bother me personally that the Bible talks about dark side of life(there’s certainly people who are upset with it). It is after all book for adults and not fairy tale for children.

Now this doesn’t sound too good but we have to remember that marriage wasn’t what it is nowadays(as in mariage for love is a new concept). Raped girl would be unlikely to get engaged to somebody else and back then women were completely dependent on men so if you didn’t have a husband to look after you, you would probably end up homeless and starving. In extremely misogynistic societies, this was probably the best outcome for rape victim.

Unlike today, slavery in the ancient times was a common occurrence accepted to be completely normal, so it is obvious that Bible says something about it. In ancient times some would be slaves as punishment, some slaves would have better lives than free people and as I understand it, in some places there were time limits on how long somebody could be a slave. The point is, I don’t think slavery was seen as such evil we see it today and that is clearly mirrored in these verses.

If people in power have been properly elected or are trying their hardest to govern to the best of their ability, then I’m fine with these verses. But then you think about countries like North Korea :flushed: so I have no answer whatsoever to this one and would like to hear it if somebody else does.

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Precisely, Human not God, Human understanding, not God. Human frailty and part of self, not God. Inspired by God but written by humans.

All of it.

But still sacred and sacrosanct. Just not inerrant or perfect.

Richard

Not good enough for me. Plenty of books are inspired by God. God is not so stingy with inspiration. But the others are not sacred and sacrosanct because the author is completely human.

The Bible is sacred, sacrosanct, and with divine authority because it is written by God – using events and human writers as His instruments. Not inerrant, nor infallible, nor self-interpreting, and especially not containing all the truth you need about anything. And no, not every passage is a command given to all by God. We are not to be the lazy servant giving it back without any investment using the brain God gave us. But we are to give it all our serious consideration seeking understanding.

So how does contingency rule?

While Paul can say that a slave can be free from slavery if the opportunity presents itself, he was also writing at a time where it would be pointless to be an outright abolitionist. By instructing masters to treat their slaves as brothers and sisters in Christ, he was effectively sowing the seeds for what would later come.

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I am sorry but you have created a paradox unless the humans are puppet automatons.
And God would not make the textual or factual errors that occur in Scripture. Neither would He make Himself look stupid and incompetent in the Garden of Eden. I am also unsure that He writes erotic love poetry.

Sacred and sacrosanct does not claim divine authorship. The Bible has been deemed sacrosanct by humans not by God Himself. (and there are other texts that have equal status in the eyes of their faith.)

That I agree.

There is no need to make Scripture more than it already is.

Richard

.

Why? When is/was slavery acceptable?

Richard

When the only alternatives were a lot worse.

Sure He would. Why should anything from God break all the laws of nature, by which all writing instruments have flaws when you look at it with a microscope. Expecting otherwise is far more harmful and delusional. The message of such errors is simple: don’t be blind to “the forest for the trees.”

Why? How else to make the self-righteous numbskulls, teaching that it was sinful for women to enjoy sex, look ridiculous.

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In phenomena that are so absent necessity or that are uncertain.

What’s your point if all things are not contingent, but that which is contingent is ruled by contingency?

That’s not it.

That is absolutely ridiculous! What planet are you living on? You have no right to claim any writing imperfect let alone all of it.

You have gone too far this time.

God, by definition, is perfect. So if He authored Scripture it would be perfect.

Richard

The very real planet earth and not some fantasy world with magic and events which ignore basic material realities.

Where did I do that? So you equate imperfect writing with an inability to see any flaws when looking at it with a microscope? You really are in a total fantasy world. Books are written to be read with the human eye, not with a microscope.

By your absurd definition, God did not create anything of this world. …fantasy God to go with your fantasy world?

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God created the world perfectly. What people define as flaws are human definitions and we know that our thoughts are not as God thinks.

We have a major dichotomy of views here. (as if you did not know)

Richard

Contingency rules that which is absent necessity or that which is uncertain.

Maybe I’ll understand you better if you explain what you mean by, or that which is uncertain.

But I’m saying the New Testament is inspired as well as the Old.

In the Book of Common Prayer, the collect about Scripture starts, “O God, you have caused all Holy Scripture to be written…” That’s pretty much my view.