Morality And God

Faith & Science Conversation
41

Well I’ll have a go. This is about the metaphor of literal original sin that Christians read in to Paul and the heresy of PSA that follows. As @MarkD says, hence YEC.

42

I would have expected you to be familiar with the concept of the Paschal Lamb, slain from before the foundation of the world. What a heresy, both OT and New.

43

Sorry? Why wouldn’t I be? What does Jesus, God’s Wow! signal, fitting Himself as glove to the hand of culture, have to do with anything beyond that?

44

The truth of the Pascal Lamb is all about love and PSA.

45

They are mutually exclusive. Black and white. God is Love. There is no PSA in Love. It can’t be added to Love, alongside Love.

46

I can understand why you don’t like Paul.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching…

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires…

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.

Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

In all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine…

…guard the deposit committed to you, avoiding profane, empty babblings, and opposing arguments falsely called knowledge…

47

I don’t understand why you think I don’t like Paul. He proclaims the faithfulness of Christ in saving all. I don’t like damnationist non-phenomenonological interpretations of Paul.

48

You are allowed to believe that.

49

…in spite of all the contrary evidence which you appear to selectively ignore or rationalize around.
 

For the wrath of God is revealed…

Now we know that God’s judgment… is based on truth.

But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

…we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might…

The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

…the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.

…the Lord avenges all such sins, as we have solemnly warned you before.

…Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might…

 
I could continue, but maybe you get the point. (And your “non-phenomenonological interpretations” red herring cannot swim against the tide.)

50

Love is Hate. Hate is Love. I suppose it’s born of incompetence.

51

 
It must be Jesus.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 
Paul elaborates somewhat, adding his own incompetence.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

52

That has got to be the strangest use of that passage I have ever seen. ??? Did you quote the wrong passage?

53

You don’t see that both passages are about judgment and justice?

54

These are fitting, too:

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.

69

My response.

In a vision my spirit beheld
A wondrous sight - the Son of Man

I beheld a world in peace
In which all the people rejoiced
On their faces a light shone
The Spirit filled them with love divine
Every gesture and thought a prayer
Prayers of gratitude and thanks given
As an offering for the Prince of Peace.

My spirit beheld over centuries of time
Mankind progressing against the oppressor, whom we despise
For the suffering and affliction that fills the earth.
Though humanity to the brink of destruction would come,
We turned away because of the sacrifice of the Son.
God in His Mercy decreed
Mankind live according to His divine Will.

I asked the elder to explain to me
When will my splendid vision come to pass
I wished to rejoice for humanity
To sing and tell my neighbour,
“Oh, come and believe
Suffering will end, our tears will cease
No more the oppressor, no more deceit
We shall live in joy and be free”.
My vision filled me with wonder
So I asked the elder
When will mankind live in such splendour?

70

When we, God’s arms, make it so.

1 Like
71

Christianity (the Gospel) introduced a radical understanding of moral/activities of humanity, which is that human beings must undergo a change in spirit and heart before we can even discuss, let alone act, with total goodness and reject all evil. So we cannot turn to does and don’ts, but instead become Christ like, with intent, act and understanding derived from goodness. Such a change is not biological but spiritual, and applies to all humanity (theists, atheists, and all else). A good starting point is the sermon on the mount.

72

The Sermon on the Mount is the change in spirit and heart. Do it and your spirit and heart change.

1 Like
73

There are atheists who are more christlike than christians.So how would you explain that

1 Like
74

What do you think needs to be explained - every human being bases his/her acts on the good and evil outlook and what they choose. So there are those who say they are atheists and choose the good as they understand it, and there are those who say they are Christians who nonetheless choose the bad (and vice-versa)

1 Like