Logic, reason and Christianity

Faith & Science Conversation
101

You have been quoting the surviving church fathers, thus suffering from survivor bias. These are the ones whose teachings were not a danger to church doctrine. You have neglected to take into account the character of the church that emerged from their destruction knowledge - it has nothing to do with the love that Jesus taught. By looking at what they destroyed from Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, we can gain insight into what they found objectionable to their doctrines of the trinity and eternal damnation.

For me, the most important thing about the remaining fragments of the 32 books on John is what is missing. The first ten books went from John 1:1 to 2:25, but what was destroyed by the Roman Empire was John 1:8-14, 1:30-51, and 2:1-11. We have enough evidence of Origin’s unique insight to know that what he wrote about the baptism of Jesus, the second coming of Elijah, and Jesus’ turning water into wine in Cana posed grave danger to the dogma created by the Roman Empire.

Ronald Hein continued his valuable work on the second half of Origen’s Commentary on John. As one of the last of Origen’s works, it is, in my opinion, the most important for our world today. This book is rare since it is translated from his original Greek and not from a Latin dogma-adjusted summary.

This book provides great insight into the logic that Origen used in his analysis of the entire text of the bible – comparing the same phrase’s meaning at each occurrence and weighing the most reasonable meaning, while providing the reader with his analysis. Thanks to Mr. Heine, modern researchers have access to the enlightened period that existed before the Dark Ages.

Again, the second half of the fragments provides a clear picture as to what the materialistic rulers of Rome feared in Origen. The commentaries on the most controversial chapters were destroyed – chapters 3,4,6,7,9,10,12. In addition, the following sections are also missing 4:1-12, 8:1-18, 8:26-36, and 11:1-38.

So, no one can say what Origen taught about reincarnation can be read out of the remaining teachings, since this was the most dangerous to the slave-state of Rome. You cannot threaten eternal damnation to a person who believes in reincarnation.

102

Let us continue the discussion on logic with the words of Jesus:

“heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away” Matt 24:35

We know from the works of Dr. Bart Ehrman and others in his field that we cannot know that we have the original worlds of Jesus and His apostles. There were no recording devices that preserved Jesus’ Word, as he promised in Matt 24:35.

Origen of Alexandria in his work on the Hexapla discovered errors, falsifications and omissions in the books of the Old Testament. There is no reason to expect the New Testamnet did not suffer the same fate, as Ehrman confirms in his work.

Jesus answers this question in John 16:12-13. He tells us He will send the Spirit of Truth, to teach all the truth. Well, we know the bible we possess does not contain All The Truth. So, when and where has the spirit of truth taught all the truth?

103

Why would any Christian want to pour doubt on the contents of Scripture, and the Gospels in particular. Don’t get me wrong, There is justification for the comments about precision and redaction but why use it to crucify the church.
Richard

104

Another bunch of heretical and irrational poppicock.

There are already disagreements at the time the New Testament was being redacted. Which is also why Paul listed factions and rivalries among the sins of the flesh. And that’s also why Jesus founded His Church: to provide a means of unity that otherwise would not be possible at all, not even in principle. Obviously Jesus wouldn’t pray for Christians to be one like He and the Father (there are no disagreements much less factionalisms within the Trinity) without providing the means for it. Much less Scripture would condemn divisions and factionalisms as ACTUAL SINS is there was no chance to avoid them. The chance exists: the Church Christ founded.

There is no getting around it: Scripture CONDEMNS factionalisms and divisions, COMMANDS Christians to be unitied and have the same Faith and Jesus PRAYS so that Christians can be one like He and the Fathers. These are UNDENIABLE FACTS. And like I said there are no disagreements nor factions nor rivalries within the Godhead. Christianity is literally plenty of them (arguably even much more than other major religions) and it’s a scandal for the world and a huge stumbling block for evangelization.

You cannot change the meaning of Scripture, no matter what you believe in your delusional delusion of grandeur.

You can decide, like you usually do, to act like a pidgeon acts when it loses a game of chess. Facts don’t change.

Like I said to Arvis, even people who don’t convert through no fault of their own can be saved. And orthodox Churches are absolutely true particular Churches: they have validly ordained priests and Bishops, valid Sacraments and most importantly the Blessed Sacrament. That tends to happen when you don’t come up with new brand doctrines, assuming that those who came before you have gotten things wrong for 15 centuries since the very beginning of Christianity.

Also, the Church of Christ subsisting in the Catholic Church shouldn’t be confused with the claim that Christians outside the Catholic communion have no relationship whatsoever to Christ’s Church.

Those are two very different propositions, and the latter is false and it’s also something I’ve never claimed.

Catholic teaching recognizes, as I said, that the Eastern Orthodox Churches are true particular Churches, possessing apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, despite their separation from full communion with Rome.

It also recognizes that baptized Protestants are genuinely Christians, united to Christ and in a real, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.

None of this cancels the fact that Christians today are fundamentally splintered, that they don’t share the same Faith on very important doctrines and very important moral teachings, and that this division is a scandal for the world (it enormously weakens the credibility of the Gospel, when people see that Christians themselves can’t even agree on what it means) and explicitly and deliberately condemned by the Bible.