That’s all fine and good, there’s a fuzzy boundary, cultural stuff, etc., etc.
Can you identify anything practiced by the world today that is sinful?
Yeah, pretty much everywhere one looks … probably the greater challenge would be to find activities that are actually free of sin.
Anything that hurts another, demeans another, causes them to feel less a child of God, or when I raise myself up or favor my own desires at somebody else’s expense. I don’t even need to look out to find it, it’s already way too common just among my own activity. And reading the newspapers today, with kids being murdered in schools and everywhere else too - it’s a tragically target-rich environment as far as answering your question goes.
We could also ask why Ham is so focused on LGTB issues when there is so much else that he could have picked. Does Disney+ portray Hindus in a positive light? Is that Anti-God since worshiping a deity other than God is strongly prohibited in the Bible? Does Ham go crazy when he finds out that there are Hindu worship centers that indoctrinate children into the Hindu faith?
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Or … limiting my responses to your query to just sexual things which I should have gathered is what you probably intended:
Rape - which would include any sort of power differential where the victimized person (e.g. a child, but not just children) might not be expected to have an informed say, or in any case, lacks the power to change what another person is doing to them.
Unfaithfulness (adultery) where people are not faithful in their love for their beloved as they have promised.
These would be two broad classes (and not necessarily the only ones) that seem pretty clear examples of sin. And they are both easily covered underneath what I mentioned in the prior post: how would you want to be treated, and to have been treated when you were a child?
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Not surprising those are sins of the second tablet. Sexual immorality is usually thought to be based on whether another person is harmed. Whereas I see it as also a sin or distortion of God’s image or purpose for us. Bad worship. Homosexuality is in my view a distortion of God’s character and purpose for marriage and human flourishing.
You are free to disagree with me and claim a better understanding of the Bible, but I don’t think, and I’ve been asking myself this a lot lately, I can join hands with you in prayer because of this.
Edit: I just saw your second reply after responding. I think what I said still applies.
That is where so many are disagreeing right now. And perhaps out of all manner of motivation, noble or sinful. Loving, or rebellious, - or both.
There is a very real danger (I think) that the conservative side is understandably sensitive toward - in that the posturing can be - is often - presented as either: “We’re pretty sure that there is no conversation needed about xy and z” - (like rape or pedophilia), vs. “We need to continue our conversation about these other things”. Which the culturally embattled conservative right now translates as: “We’re gonna keep ‘conversing’ with you until you can finally come around and see the light.”
Now - when you’re on the receiving end of that (latter) posturing, it sounds like a sinister, indoctrination thing. And as understandable as it is that they would take it that way - I’m not necessarily putting it forward as a bad thing to happen in conversations. We do it all the time around here on matters of science. We enter into conversations with anti-vaxxers with precisely the goal of delivering them from lies and conspiracy nonsense. Which is how I need to be treated if I believe something is false. I don’t want somebody being so charitable (for the sake of loving conversation) with my own false notions, that I can then become comfortable staying with that falsehood. After being delivered of it, I will thank them for their persuasive influence on me.
And if it turns out that they were wrong, then they should appropriately be thankful for me having any influence I could on them in turn.
Probably what both can try to avoid is couching the conversation as being a contest of piety or “who’s closer to God or God’s favor, etc.” That posturing seems always inappropriate to me no matter how right and true one’s particular cause may be.
Those are golden words. And thanks for that. It’s very much mutual.
Pity for your FBI agent looking at your history
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You misread me at the end. I will care for you as my neighbor, but I cannot join hands with in you fellowship.
This is an issue I have with some Christians. It’s like their whole life revolves around homosexuality. They’ll say stuff like “hope he repents” when someone murders, and then goes “you’re going to hell! Disgusting sinner” when someone comes out as homosexual.
For me, I could care less if you’re gay, identify as a tree, or what not. Just don’t force it on me (although I do think people are starting to treat lgbt like it’s a trend, so it’s kinda hard to say I don’t care if someone starts saying they identify as something ridiculous). But I have run into some issues with a few gay people too, one time, someone claimed I hated the lgbt community because I stated that I “didn’t support homosexuality”. I don’t “encourage” it, or praise it, that’s what I meant by not support.
My point is, some people on both sides care too much and go to the extreme.
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Indeed. I will be watchful for any further conversation after you’ve had a chance to read Longman.
And instead of spending so much time on hating on one thing, how about we focus on helping others and expressing love. The verse about Judgment fits in well with about half of Conservative Christians.
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Exactly. I think it is possible to celebrate a diverse and free society while also standing firm on what your religious beliefs are. Those two are not necessarily in conflict. At least in my eyes, it is counterproductive to lambast a company because they dare to portray people who don’t adhere to the rules of one religion. In a free society we are going to disagree, and that’s ok.
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Very well. I will strive to be inviting of fellowship with you whether you will have me or no.
As will I hope for your repentance so we can join together in one accord.
Good heavens! Let’s step back even further and look at the underlying message of most of the Disney movie content I am familiar with:
-Parents are unreasonable and domineering; they cannot deal with the developing maturity and dreams of their offspring in any way other than trying to quash it.
-Offspring can only be fulfilled in life by following hard (RIGHT NOW!) after their budding dreams and are therefore FORCED into rebellion against their parents domination.
-Once the offspring have freed themselves of domination, there will be consequences for their rashness.
-These consequences teach the domineering parents the error of their ways — how they are the ones responsible for their offspring’s rebellion — and that their offspring simultaneously are still dependent on them but independent of them and should receive the respect of reasonable adults.
-Everyone is happier and loves each other more because of this struggle.
-And P.S. It’s perfectly OK to poison your mother in order to get what you want. In spite of the temporary emotional complications, it will all work out in the end. (Brave)
Ham find same-sex-attacted dinosaurs more problematic? Clearly has his priorities all worked out.
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These fundamentalists have to carefully choose whom they condemn. It has to resonate with their faithful and not anger them. So even though the Bible is against divorce, against gluttony, prohibits sewing two different kinds of cloth together, yet is tolerant of slavery, polygamy, and concubinage, the queer community makes an ideal target of hate.
Not to mention pagan gods swinging weapons around and flying through the air.
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Please give credit where credit is due… it’s fundamentalist pirates. Fundamentalist, following J.I. Packer, still has an honorable use in my lexicon. Same with the importance of distinguishing an evolutionist from an evolutionary creationist. Or a liberal from a leftist.
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Pretty sure that is due to Sutton’s law. The comments are not to change the world, they are to raise money from his supporters.
For those perhaps who are not familiar, Sutton’s law derives from when a notorious bank robber named Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks. His reply," Because that’s where the money is." Now it refers to looking at the most likely possibilities first, whether in medicine or auto repair. Or in this case, a more literal cash incentive, ironically. Perhaps too cynical on my part.
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I wish I could give this more than one ‘like’. I am what many would consider ‘conservative’ on issues of gender and sexuality though I am open to, and think, a more nuanced conversation is required. And yet, I am OK with the legalisation of same sex marriage and its portrayal in the media. For the simple fact that A. I don’t live in a Christian nation (an oxymoronic phrase) so why should I expect it to rule in favour of Christian norms. But more importantly, B, when freedom of choice and expression is upheld, enshrined in law, and cherished by society, everyone wins, including me and mine. Cooperation furthers mutual goals.
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